Swiss ban minarets
Depressing that Swiss voters have voted to ban minarets.
Islam has been demonised, which of course will be helpful to those who want to promote hatred.
I guess Bin Laden and the Swiss People Party will both be celebrating.
Islam is as European as it gets, think of Spain as a Muslim country, an oasis of tolerance and culture in the 14th century.
Also depressing because many Muslims in Switzerland were literally forced out of the former Yugoslavia by bigots who burnt mosques.
Saudi Arabia bans churchs which is appalling, looks like Switerland wants to ban mosques, banning places of religious worship is wrong!
Its a historical accident that much of Europe isn’t Muslim, Jesus wasn’t born in Berne, in a different history one can imagine Christians being attacked as non European.
Well said. Boycott Switzerland. They are as cookoo as their clocks.
Comment by paddy garcia — 29 November, 2009 @ 7:12 pm
Boycotting Switzerland isn’t appropriate and will not acheive anything. Redoubling all our efforts in effective anti-fascist activities however is vital.
Comment by The Friendly Lefty — 29 November, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Not heard anything that Switzerland wants to ban mosques. Is this in the pipeline?
Comment by Chris H — 29 November, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
I think it’s a good start. Now for knocking down churches.
Comment by Sanitory Janitor — 29 November, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
The irony of this is that Switzerland was chosen by the MI6-CIA as the base for the Muslim Brotherhood during the Cold War. Wasn’t it from here that Said Ramadan, the father of Tariq Ramadan (born in Switzerland),operated to undermine Nasser and any Third World Nationalism which threatened western interests in Muslim majority countries?
The irony of it all!!! You wont hear the fascistic Muslim Brotherhood and their British off-shoots MAB, BMI, etc..thanking Switzerland for their hospitality. And you’ll never hear the West thanking the Muslim Brotherhood for delivering their nations resources to the British banking system.
Comment by W.O. Goodman — 29 November, 2009 @ 8:48 pm
“Islam is as European as it gets”
No it isn’t!
“looks like Switerland wants to ban mosques”
No it doesn’t
“Its a historical accident that much of Europe isn’t Muslim”
No it ain’t.
Comment by Hugh — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:07 pm
oh yes it is, Jesus wasn’t born in Zurich, the theological differences between the peoples of the book should not be ranked up to cause hatred….not that theology should be used to promote hatred full stop.
I guess a flood of dumb right wingers will be on to defend their right to hate those who are different from them.
Comment by Derek Wall — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:21 pm
a serious development and sign of things to come-showing the racist backwater europe is and why a serious campaign uniting those opposed to islamophobia is so clearly needed now and fortunately has just been set up-one society many cultures-with genuine broad support from across the political progressive spectrum and faith and non faith groups-see here for quotes from key supporters:
http://www.progressivelondon.org.uk/blog/one-society-many-cultures-launch-in-parliament.html
Comment by sylvia ebberly — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:41 pm
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Comment by W.O. Goodman — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
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Comment by This machine kills fascists — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
>Its a historical accident that much of Europe isn’t Muslima Muslim country, an oasis of tolerance
Comment by Martin Kelly — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
Wrong. Europe is not muslim because the invading muslim army was stopped at Vienna in 1683.
>a Muslim country, an oasis of tolerance
Comment by Martin Kelly — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
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Comment by Martin Kelly — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:51 pm
Wow has Nick Cohen twittered a link to this article? Or are there simply that many random morons who think Islamofascism exists and is some existential threat to our progressive enlightenment values?
Puh-lease.
Comment by The Friendly Lefty — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
!!! PRIZE WINNER !!!
Congratulations to W.O. Goodman @ #5
You managed to get:
MI6-CIA
Tariq Ramadan
fascistic Muslim Brotherhood
and their British off-shoots MAB, BMI, etc
into one post !
Congratulations you have won the Islamophobic idiot trumps for this evening.
Comment by Eddie Truman — 29 November, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
They get hot under the collar about Islam, you would think Muslims had three heads from the responses, have some of these people actually met any Muslims.
Comment by Derek Wall — 29 November, 2009 @ 10:08 pm
Im a socialist and I don’t support Islamism but I know scapegoating when I see it.
Comment by AndyB — 29 November, 2009 @ 10:39 pm
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Comment by W.O. Goodman — 29 November, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
“I guess a flood of dumb right wingers will be on to defend their right to hate those who are different from them”
Aren’t you expressing your hate for ‘right wingers’ here ? And aren’t they different from you ?
You’re perfectly entitled to do so, of course. Just don’t get all moralistic about ‘hate’.
Comment by Laban — 29 November, 2009 @ 11:09 pm
now lets remember Switzerlands role in WW2 re the plight of the Jewish people.
Were they ever held fully account
No
What about their role in WW1 in using British POWs as cheap Labour
Switzerland is Big Business
Comment by Sam — 29 November, 2009 @ 11:11 pm
AndyB, I think we should condemn this measure against minerates, but let’s not forget who slaughtered the left in Muslim majorities countries on behalf of Capitalism.
Comment by W.O. Goodman — 29 November, 2009 @ 11:12 pm
#21 “but let’s not forget who slaughtered the left in Muslim majorities countries on behalf of Capitalism”
Who did ?
Swiss Muslims ?
Of course they didn’t.
The idiotic line you argue would see me facing down the Christian members of our many demonstrations for peace, in solidarity with Palestine and against racism, for being linked to the Christianity of those perpetrating war crimes against the peoples of the world.
The throwaway rhetoric that you use, ‘W.O. Goodman’, of smearing a whole range of Islamic thought as one entity, a threatening one, a hostile one, is nothing more than the European racist discourse of the early 21st century.
Comment by Eddie Truman — 29 November, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
Eddie,
Of course Swiss Muslims didn’t play a role in the slaughter of the left in Muslim majorities countries. I was pointing out the irony that the Muslim Brotherhood’s first European base was in Switzerland and it was from that it launched its campaigns in defence of Western Capital. Tariq Ramadan is firmly in this camp.
Comment by W.O. Goodman — 30 November, 2009 @ 7:19 am
This sad but it not the end of the world ,so lets see how it turn out, but i think we on the left need to wake up to the fact that a lot of ppl out there are uncomfortable when there see religion(of all kinds) and polites mixes ,bombs go off and ppl get kill plus to me it just another form of ID polites which as a socialist i think is not a way to go forward.
As for Islamist the have no time for socialist so we show no time for them.
I write is as a person with a religion backgound (my mother was a jehovah witness)so i Know what religions intolerance (having face it) plus the darker side too it .
For my secularism and socialism are as one.
Comment by steelcityred — 30 November, 2009 @ 9:42 am
The Papacy has done some shitty thinks but are we calling for the demolition of Catholic Churches?
Comment by Derek Wall — 30 November, 2009 @ 10:11 am
‘things’ !
Comment by Derek Wall — 30 November, 2009 @ 10:11 am
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Comment by CHarles Dexter Ward — 30 November, 2009 @ 10:22 am
Some of the comments below this article demonstrate why the left needs to campaign against Islamophobia both more broadly and on the left. People seem to think that because there are governments in Muslim countries that are repressive and organizations that are reactionary, that ordinary Muslims should face discrimination. FFS it was the Catholic Church that brought us the Inquisition, the evangelical Protestant church that is practically integrated into the US state and serves to justify everything from the denial of gay rights to war. It is the Anglican church in Angola that has supported the attacks on gay rights that will lead to life sentences for being gay. Nazi Germany was a Christian country. The death squads in El Salvador were deeply Christian (as was much of the left). People need to get their heads out of their ass - this is about the far right using scapegoating to build its organization and attack a section of the working class to divide the whole working class.
Comment by redbedhead — 30 November, 2009 @ 11:04 am
You know, if the Swiss had said no more synagogues were to be built in their country, just think of the howls of outrage there would be about anti-Semitism.
That it can be done to mosques says a lot about the Islamophobic climate today.
Comment by Mark Victorystooge — 30 November, 2009 @ 11:43 am
#28 Spot on.
And imo one of the democratic reforms we should support in England and Wales (and Scotland) is the disestablishment of the Cof E and C of S. A bit hypocritical to lecture Muslims about secularism when we have state religion. This is demand supported by many Anglicas btw.
Comment by Armchair — 30 November, 2009 @ 11:56 am
Islam was strongly established in southern Spain but was stamped out with mass executions, forced conversions and expulsions. It was established for a time in Sicily, where a dialect of Arabic was spoken for a time, but again it was stamped out. (Sicilian is unusual among Italian dialects in containing a large number of words of Arabic origin.) And it has a significant presence in the Balkans. Albania is a Muslim-majority country and Bosnia and parts of Bulgaria also have a strong Muslim presence, in addition to the small corner of Turkey that is in Europe.
Comment by Mark Victorystooge — 30 November, 2009 @ 12:30 pm
a good text by a comrade of the RSO in Switzerland on the issue, published a few days ago: http://www.sozialismus.net//content/view/1316/1/ (in German, sorry) … and fascists and reactionaries all over Europe are celebrating
Comment by Entdinglichung — 30 November, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
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Comment by bob hope — 30 November, 2009 @ 4:25 pm
Not giving me much Hope Bob, I am sure that people make negative comments about Jews and Christians because of their rather older origins in dry parts of the world.
‘Complex’ you just want to attack Muslims.
Google sufi for some enlightenment!
Comment by Derek Wall — 30 November, 2009 @ 5:07 pm
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Comment by CameronTrueWorker — 30 November, 2009 @ 7:50 pm
I’m alarmed by the number of racists (some of whom may well be bnp interlopers) whose comments haven’t been deleted. The likes of ‘CameronTrueWorker’, is a case in point, almost certainly an organised fascist. Replace ‘islamic’ with ‘jewish’ in his comment, and you’ll get the gist of what he really thinks.
Comment by Keith Watermelon — 30 November, 2009 @ 7:57 pm
Maybe I will visit a Church when I go to Saudi Arabia, oh yeah, it is forbidden to practice other religions in Saudi, never mind even build a church there. I am sick of western Europe and North Americans appeasing this religion, when there is no reciprication on the so called muslim countries.
Comment by Tony — 1 December, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
Maybe instead of trying to visit a church under the (Western-backed - now THAT’s appeasement!) Saudi dictatorship, “Tony”, you would have more luck in Pakistan, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Indonesia or any of the other Muslim countries where there are flippin loads of churches.
Comment by ted — 2 December, 2009 @ 10:46 am
Europe is and has been since the fall of Rome the home of barbarian tribes.
Once one understands that one understands how Europeans think.
Pretty depressing isn’t it ?
These grubby Euro types just haven’t had the advantage of a good public school education and luvie lefty upbringing.
Some of these Swiss even store cows in the basement.
God knows what that smells like.
The solution is simple.
Millions more non Europeans to be brought in pronto to teach em a bloody good lesson and stop them being so parochial.
Public School Lefty
Comment by Public School Lefty — 3 December, 2009 @ 4:09 pm