BATTLEFIELD BARKING
This month’s issue of Searchlight magazine contains a detailed analysis by Nick Lowles of the challenge that we face in Barking and Dagenham.
The BNP are potentially within sight of winning control of Barking and Dagenham council in next year’s elections, and Nick Griffin is challenging for the Barking parliamentary seat, currently held by the hapless Margaret Hodge.
So far the electoral successes of the BNP have still left them on the margins of influence, but if they gain control of a London borough this would not only provide them with control of a budget of hundreds of millions of pounds, but it would also allow them to implement some of their deeply racist and repellent policies. It would also give them a springboard for the Stoke on Trent elections in 2011, where all seats are up for grabs.
Let us be clear, that the BNP might well have gained control of Barking and Dagenham in 2006 had they stood more candidates, when they stood 13 candidates in seven wards, and twelve of them were elected with 41% of the vote (compared to Labour’s 33%)
This year’s euro election say the BNP get just 19.5%, but UKIP also got 14.8%, and evidence from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has shown in the past that BNP and UKIP voters in London appeal to the same electoral demographic (this is less so outside London). There is an additional worry that the Barking Labour Party is riven by factional disputes, and 13 sitting labour councillors have been deselected, and some are threatening to challenge as independents.
In 2006, the BNP vote was undoubtedly boosted by the inept and stupid intervention of Margaret Hodge who talked up their chances in a well publicised gaffe, that created an expectation of BNP triumph and this brought out hundreds of people to vote BNP who would never have voted otherwise.
Next year’s local authority election will probably fall on the same day as the General Election, in which the BNP will have only a minor role, and limited press attention; but Nick Griffin MEP will undoubtedly create a media circus.
It is important to understand that in Barking and Dagenham, the BNP can only be defeated by anti-fascists voting Labour, and by potential BNP voters being dissuaded from voting. The Labour Party will be running their own campaign, so the task of the anti-BNP campaign is to boost turnout, and ensure that the BNP threat is well understood.
Any effort by anti-fascists to run around after the BNP trying to disrupt their campaign, or carry out stunts like throwing eggs at Griffin, will play into the fascists’ hands by creating the media circus that they thrive on, especially if this tactic is employed by people who live outside Barking and Dagenham. And given the size of the task, street stalls and leafleting tube stations will be ineffective, and is not symmetrical with the doorstep level, street by street, face to face campaigning that the BNP will be doing.
Searchlight have set themselves the aim of identifying 1500 anti-fascist voters per ward, on the premise that 1000 votes in any ward is enough to deny the BNP victory. They will also be focussing on the five most critical swing wards, and developing a system of telephone canvassing to empower activists to help wherever they are in the country.
Around 20% of the borough is of BME origin, and boosting votes through the black African churches, and other community groups can help boost the turnout by those with most to lose from a BNP victory.
We are not where we want to be; and we are fighting a defensive battle to hold the line. But we cannot afford to lose this one.
looks like a good picture for an end-of-year caption competition…
Comment by RobM — 15 December, 2009 @ 2:46 pm
It is imperative that the left put up credible candidates in both council and parliamentary elections. Why would anyone vote Labour when they are responsible for this mess. It is Labours racist and imperialist policies that have legitimised the rise of the BNP, especially Margaret Hodge who must be one of the vilest manifestations of New Labour around.
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 2:51 pm
“Any effort by anti-fascists to run around after the BNP trying to disrupt their campaign, or carry out stunts like throwing eggs at Griffin, will play into the fascists’ hands by creating the media circus that they thrive on, especially if this tactic is employed by people who live outside Barking and Dagenham.”
Hear hear. SWP/UAF take note.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 15 December, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
Well at least Searchlight are taking the threat of a BNP win seriously this time.
Comment by The Friendly Lefty — 15 December, 2009 @ 3:33 pm
So Johnny are you saying that you would not support an “international brigade” of anti fascists to help out in Barking?
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 3:42 pm
#5 I think the key words are “help out” and the key question is help out who?
Comment by Armchair — 15 December, 2009 @ 3:58 pm
I would suggest NOT having a field of candidates in Barking to rival Haltemprice and Howden for crowd-sourcing!
A left/leftist candidate getting less than 300 votes and Nick Griffin winning with a majority of 400 would go down a storm…
Hold your nose, vote Labour. Protest your balls off against Griffin (and I’ll support you with that!). Do all you can to stand against the BNP, but think twice before going down the electoral route in this particular seat.
We all know how the BNP operate. They would love to characterise the far-left as being the race obsessed trouble makers. Better support the only candidate likely to actually win than split the vote.
In Preston, we have been lucky not to have much of a credible BNP threat here. Indeed there has not been a BNP parliamentary candidate for 10 years. Long may this last, and best of luck to the anti-BNP campaigners in Barking and Dagenham.
Comment by Passing Leftie — 15 December, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
“Any effort by anti-fascists to run around after the BNP trying to disrupt their campaign, or carry out stunts like throwing eggs at Griffin, will play into the fascists’ hands by creating the media circus that they thrive on, especially if this tactic is employed by people who live outside Barking and Dagenham. And given the size of the task, street stalls and leafleting tube stations will be ineffective, and is not symmetrical with the doorstep level, street by street, face to face campaigning that the BNP will be doing.”
What a load of nonsense. A muted and anodyne campaign will play right into Griffins hands. He’s hoping to grandstand in Barking and anti-nazis need to prevent this in every way possible. Some of the most vibrant opposition to the nazis has come from anti-nazis who have thought up creative ways to stop them. I suppose those who fought at Cable Street would have contravened the draconian rules set out in Andy’s comment.
Griffin’s going to get a lot more than eggs thrown at him during this campaign and he deserves every bit of it. As for the argument that we have to pander to some local vetting procedure before we’re pure enough to tackle the nazis in Barking that is a recipe for disaster. We need a vibrant campaign that links local people with the rest of London and the country. We need to demonstrate that the BNP are not respectable and they are loathed universally. Treating them as if they are regular politicians give them their desperately sought after veneer of respectability and plays right into their hands.
Comment by Ray — 15 December, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
Ray, the problem is they are not loathed universally- that outcome is what campaigning is aiming to produce.
Comment by non-parisan — 15 December, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
#Ray- Cable Street was about stopping fascists from marching.
It may have escaped your notice but, (a) the BNP are not marching and (b) in British elections the ballot is secret, so how is there an analogy?
Perhaps we should say to potential BNP voters- don’t vote for the BNP because if we find out that you are thiking about it we’ll march to your house and physically prevent you from going to the polling station.
But we won’t need to do that because you’ll see the stickers on all the lamp posts in your street that a load of students from out of the area stuck up before getting on the Student Union minibus back to Stoke Newington, and that’ll make you see the error of your ways.
Comment by Armchair — 15 December, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
Ray:
“Griffin’s going to get a lot more than eggs thrown at him during this campaign and he deserves every bit of it.”
What do you mean by this and how do you know?
Comment by Tony — 15 December, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
Oh and just to really settle the argument, the stickers say “Nazi free zone”.
Comment by Armchair — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:02 pm
“It is important to understand that in Barking and Dagenham, the BNP can only be defeated by anti-fascists voting Labour.”
Do not agree!
Comment by In the Box — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
“Throwing eggs” and slogan shouting and all the rest of it - plays into the BNPs hands. One side looks like race obsessed violent anti-democrats, the other looks like the very embodiment of reasoned debate.
The good fight happens in a democratic election through, largely, democratic means. Maybe being a member of a “mainstream” political party leans me away from throwing eggs and shouting “NAZI SCUM” at vote counts.
Comment by Passing Leftie — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
“But we won’t need to do that because you’ll see the stickers on all the lamp posts in your street that a load of students from out of the are stuck up before getting on the Student Union minibus back to Stoke Newington, and that’ll make you see the error of your ways.”
Your disdain for students speaks volumes about how out of touch you are from actual anti-nazi activity on the ground. We need to welcome the support of all sections of the community not proscribe who is and who isn’t acceptable in our movement.
The point about Cable Street is that if anti-nazis then had followed Andy’s advice now the extent of the opposition to the BUF would have been limited to politely handing out leaflets instead of actively confronting them. Do you think the anti-nazi demo outside the BBC was counter-productive because it had a lot of students on it?
“What do you mean by this and how do you know?”
I’m referring to the actions anti-nazis have made against Griffin in other areas. I welcome the creative and principled stand they have taken against Griffin. Instead of knocking that and trying to ridicule other anti-nazis certain people here should welcome their intervention. They have stopped Griffin taking advantage of his Euro election win.
There is room for politely handing out leaflets but not at the expense of attacking other anti-nazis who are using a variety of tactics to stop the BNP. It’s divisive and will lead to defeat.
Comment by Ray — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
““Throwing eggs” and slogan shouting and all the rest of it - plays into the BNPs hands. One side looks like race obsessed violent anti-democrats, the other looks like the very embodiment of reasoned debate.”
What evidence do you have to back this up? If the egg throwing incident was so bad then why didn’t Griffin take advantage of it and see his image improve? The logic of your argument is that only so-called “respectable” opposition is acceptable. This is a recipe for defeat. It will demobilise thousands of enthusiastic anti-nazis and leave the movement in the hands of a conservative minority.
Comment by Ray — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
Absolutely ray. And all that stuff about it all being hyped up by the media. Since when have we on the left ever let the bourguois media set the agenda on what tactics we adopt? If the NUM for example pandered to the media and wider public opinion then the miners strike would not have taken place.
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 5:53 pm
“Perhaps we should say to potential BNP voters- don’t vote for the BNP because if we find out that you are thiking about it we’ll march to your house and physically prevent you from going to the polling station.”
Not a bad idea at all. These people need their heads cracked open, wont be many brains inside though. They are racist scum. That is why they vote BNP.
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
Paddy, Ray - shouting ‘Nazi Scum’ and throwing things may make you feel better, and is no doubt great fun, but it will not persuade your wavering ’shall I or shan’t I vote BNP’ voter in Barking to turn his back on the BNP. Just the opposite.
It’s not about having agendas set by bourgeouis media or anything else; it’s not mobilising anti-Nazis, even, because they won’t vote BNP anyway. It’s about reaching those who might. It’s about what will work on the ground in Barking.
It’s got too serious now for self-indulgent wankery.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:16 pm
I think certain people here are muddled about why Griffin won in the Euro elections. He didn’t win because voters felt sorry for him he won by attracting the traditional nazi vote of disaffected Tories and the petit-bourgeoisie.
Thousands of traditional Labour voters didn’t vote most probably because of a generalised disgust at MP’s expenses Griffin took advantage of this and the then recent BJ4BW rhetoric. That’s why NO2EU didn’t resonate with traditional Labour voters. If there had been a vibrant anti-nazi/left opposition then perhaps the situation would have been different.
Our task is to offer that vibrant opposition to the BNP and a sure fire way to prevent this is to attack the efforts of other anti-nazis and proscribe onto the movement a set of diktats from a select few that hobbles our campaign.
Comment by Ray — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:16 pm
sorry, my 19 should read ‘it’s not about mobilising anti-Nazis, even’
Comment by Jonny Mac — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
Yet again I agree on Ray on this. Our task is to reach out to those who don’t vote at all rather than to pander to potential BNP voters. The fascist vote, yes they are fascists, not some slightly nastier version of UKIP like some on the left like to believe, is as its always been mainly petit bourguois, wannabee petit bourguois and some lumpen elements. They are not people at the bottom of the pile, the don’t tend to vote and it is them as well as the traditional labour vote that has to be mobilised everywhere. Where I live in Hackney is a lot poorer than Barking. So is Tower Hamlets, Newham and other places where the BNP don’t or hardly exist.
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
“Paddy, Ray - shouting ‘Nazi Scum’ and throwing things may make you feel better, and is no doubt great fun, but it will not persuade your wavering ’shall I or shan’t I vote BNP’ voter in Barking to turn his back on the BNP. Just the opposite.”
The contempt you have for the magnificent efforts anti-nazis across the country have put into the campaign is breathtaking. You can characterise these efforts in a sardonic manner but the egg throwing, demos and protests have had more of an impact in preventing Griffin from capitalising on his election win than any amount of snide comments on this blog. The fact that the EDL have failed to grow and recently, BNP councillors have lost their seats demonstrates that the campaigns of UAF along with other anti-nazis is affecting their growth.
There is room in our movement for a whole range of tactics so why are YOU attacking other anti-nazis instead of focusing on the BNP?
Comment by Ray — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
Ray - precisely why will ‘traditional Labour voters’ be suddenly inspired to go out and vote by the sight of a bunch of scruffs holding SWP placards shouting Nazi Scum and scuffling in the streets with Griffin’s thugs? I genuinely don’t see it.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
There is a very unhealthy obsession with elections being peddled here, not just on this thread but recurring on others. This post draws our attention and quite rightly to the threat of the BNP making gains in Barking and Dagenham. But it is delusional to suggest though, that voting for Labour and the deplorable Margaret Hodge is the solution, this demonstrates a no-idea of keep your head buried in the sand and hope the BNP will go away come voting day. And what self-important arrogance to tell others what or what not to do!
Comment by In the Box — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
#23 “The fact that the EDL have failed to grow and recently, BNP councillors have lost their seats demonstrates that the campaigns of UAF along with other anti-nazis is affecting their growth.”
It doesn’t demonstrate that. You haven’t shown any causal link at all.
And to answer your question, I’m talking about this because I think egg throwing et al would be positively damaging to the forthcoming anti-fascist campaign in Barking.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
Damaging for who excatly? Only for the BNP who will be the target. Who gives a toss how the media will report it, they are not on our side.
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Well, #27 Paul, you get down there to Barking and take on the fash.
In my part of the world people would say “you and whose army ?”.
You’re a fake Paul, more Wolfie Smith than Vladimir Ilyich.
Comment by Eddie Truman — 15 December, 2009 @ 8:06 pm
Eddie Truman
“You’re a fake Paul, more Wolfie Smith than Vladimir Ilyich.”
Pot. Kettle. Red.
Comment by Shirl — 15 December, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
Anti-fascists in Barking will have to hold their noses and vote for Hodge. And we will need to encourage them.
I hope we can all put huge efforts into ensuring Griffin gets nowhere. And I hope that we don’t waste a lot of time attacking each other’s tactics rather than getting on with our own.
I have heard a rumour that there may even be one or two students on the electoral roll in Barking, by the way
Comment by KrisS — 15 December, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
KrisS is absolutely spot on here.
In Barking, the ONLY alternative to Griffin is Hodge and we must do what we can to encourage as many people as possible to vote for her - the same goes for Jon Cruddas in Dagenham too.
Paddy Garcia, surely you’ve got to recognise that this is the only option in these constituencies at this time.
Sure, we need a Workers Party that wil fight uncompromisingly for our class, but we’ve not built such an organisation have we?
We on the working-class left, having failed to get our act together in such areas, cannot now launch adventurous, ill-considered and reckless initiatives.
We have to confront the real danger that presents itself now - and that danger is a BNP election victory in these two constituencies.
A time for unity and a time for discipline - vote for Hodge in Barking and for Cruddas in Dagenham.
Comment by Karl Stewart — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:06 pm
A short film about the labour party’s battle with barnbrook! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQQEm9TJfMQ
Comment by Marky — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
“A time for unity and a time for discipline - vote for Hodge in Barking and for Cruddas in Dagenham”
No. 31 So you vote for the party whose politics have led to the rise of the BNP. Why? For whose benefit?
Not for the working class of whatever colour.
Comment by Ryan O'Connor — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:15 pm
Do you two really think it doesn’t matter if a Nazi MP gets elected?
Comment by KrisS — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:27 pm
It is impossible to support Hodge. A Left candidate should fight against her and the BNP.
Maybe Hodge could join the BNP (and, yes, they have a Jewish BNP cllr nearby, on Epping Forest council) and be a ‘dream ticket’ candidate for them with Griffin fighting (more white) Dagenham?
It could be interesting to see what the BNP do if elected to power in Barking & Dagenham.
For example, will they stick to what they believe and say our housing stock can only be let to whites, or possibly just to British citizens, or will they say much as we would like to do that, we can’t do that (yet). I believe the Nazi Party did the later (for equivalent issues when elected to municipalities), at least at first.
If the BNP tried the first they would, in short order, be disbarred from being councillors by the government (under ‘Standards Board’ and other legislation) and no such policy would be implemented. New elections would be held (and if they won those?). Would be interesting.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:28 pm
Ryan, in the 2010 general election in Barking there are two potential outcomes, a BNP victory and a Labour victory.
I want a Labour victory, what do you want?
In the longer term, our class needs a unified Workers Party - what do you want?
Comment by Karl Stewart — 15 December, 2009 @ 10:29 pm
Just vote for the racist, imperialist Labour Party who’s responsible for the rise of the BNP? Can’t you do better than this Karl?
Comment by paddy garcia — 15 December, 2009 @ 11:14 pm
Never mind the eggs, Griffin should be burnt alive.
Comment by Rorschach — 15 December, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
#36 A New Labour win in Barking in not a win for the worker. I would not use the language of victory it’s not creditworthy for them.
what do you want?
Not the empty’s being posted here!
Comment by In the Box — 16 December, 2009 @ 12:12 am
“It doesn’t demonstrate that. You haven’t shown any causal link at all.”
Are you kidding! Who do you think organised against the EDL? The very people you are mocking. They are the ones who ran the nazis out of Harrow and stopped the nazis in Birmingham, Glasgow etc. Perhaps you think the thousands that turned up in Glasgow were damaging the movement but the vast majority of anti-nazis don’t.
“And to answer your question, I’m talking about this because I think egg throwing et al would be positively damaging to the forthcoming anti-fascist campaign in Barking.”
You’re offering nothing except disparagement and that isn’t going to motivate anyone to organise against the nazis. You claim that I’m showing no evidence but it’s you who is failing here. Why should anti-nazis follow your advice if there’s nothing to substantiate your accusations? If you think you know what Labour voters want then prove it.
Comment by Ray — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:49 am
Of course, there’s nothing wrong with anti-fascists, be they students or anyone else, coming to Barking to help the campaign against the BNP. But what this discussion seems to be taking almost for granted is that the BNP have an invincible base of hardcore local support and that there’s no working class people living in the area that hate what they stand for.
I would have thought that, on the contrary, there will be many local people who are alarmed that the BNP may be in with a serious chance of winning the council and want to do something about it. They need to be drawn into the campaign, leafleting schools and colleges, going around the housing estates and arguing face to face with people about the real nature of the BNP and why they shouldn’t vote for it. The place needs to be saturated with anti-nazi activity.
As for who to vote for, the question seems to be this - does the left have a credible base there? Has a unified left wing alternative been established through the hard slog of being stuck into local csampaigns, proving to local people that it is serious about fighting for their interests? Can it call upon a network of supporters in local workplaces, colleges, housing estates etc to get a credible vote out? If not, the talk of a left alternative at the ballot box seems to be mere posturing, something unfortunately the left is extremely good at. On election day itself, the choice may well come down to the BNP or New Labour, as it did in Tower Hamlets when we pushed back Derek Beacon. The left pays the price for its sectarianism and disunity. That doesn’t stop us putting the arguments against the nazis and building a strong campaign against them in this election.
Comment by dennis — 16 December, 2009 @ 3:12 am
Dennis is right. There are many people in Barking who oppose the nazis and want a strong, vibrant and multi-faceted campaign against them. That’s what worked on the Isle of Dogs. I campaigned there at the time and the various initiatives against the BNP helped get rid of Beacon.
There is no credible left alternative to Hodge and as such we need to call for a vote for Labour. That doesn’t mean we have to avoid discussing the problems with Labour. Campaigning against the nazis is a good opportunity to discuss a solution to poor housing, job cuts and the recession.
Let anti-nazis in Barking decide how they want to campaign. But let’s remember that this issue doesn’t just involve people in Barking. The anti-nazi movement is a national one and we all have a say in how it should be organised.
Comment by Ray — 16 December, 2009 @ 4:38 am
This was an article in 1994 about how Beackon supposedly owned the Isle of Dogs:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/dogfight-in-the-docklands-john-torode-joins-the-islanders-of-the-british-national-party-as-they-campaign-to-take-over-a-traditional-labour-stronghold-1432370.html
And a response refuting that claim:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/letter-growing-opposition-to-the-bnp-among-islanders-1432808.html
The same old argument about the BNP’s control of an area being insurmountable was happening then as it is now. Beackon was trading on the lie that everyone in the Isle of Dogs was racist and supported the BNP. While we can’t be complacent we shouldn’t succumb to the BNP’s hype now.
Comment by Ray — 16 December, 2009 @ 4:49 am
It is possible to campaign against the BNP in Barking without explicitly calling for a vote for Hodge - indeed it is possible that for some voters to argue that an explicit call for a vote for Hodge may discredit arguments against the BNP. The Labour Party will be mobilising the vote for for her - we can de-mobilise the potential BNP vote by answering their arguments and raising socialist ideas. To do this we do not need to satnd a candidate in the seat - and to do so would be, at the very least, tactically daft. Mass Campaigning in the area for jobs, the defence of services and against the BNP can all play a role in keeping the BNP out.
Paddy - many working class people who have voted or would vote for the BNP may have some racist ideas, but this doesn’t make such voters ‘fascist scum’. Unfortunately racism is extremely pervasive in society and consigning everyone who has ever had a racist thought as irredemable fascists helps no-one but the BNP.
Comment by jota — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:52 am
Dunno if it’s just an East Midlands thing but the SP and the BNP have stood against each other twice in recent memory in multi-seat constituencies in the region.
Each time, a fairly large proportion of the voters for the SP also contained votes for the BNP. You’d be surprised how fluid voting patterns are nowadays.
Comment by Nick Parker — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:22 am
“Any effort by anti-fascists to run around after the BNP trying to disrupt their campaign, or carry out stunts like throwing eggs at Griffin, will play into the fascists’ hands by creating the media circus that they thrive on, especially if this tactic is employed by people who live outside Barking and Dagenham.”
At which point will searchlight get the point that anti-fascists do not need lessons in tactics from self confessed Spooks like them. UAF thankfully will ignore these muppets and will be the core of the antifascist fight in B&D
anyone calling for other than a labour vote here is frankly deranged- and playing at politics.
Comment by JimPage — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:23 am
The BNP are running a national campaign here, using outsiders, and to leave the campaign to the proven local failures of the HNH/searchlight is a recipe for disaster. UAF is the best vehicle to stop the BNP here- you cant see the wet local vicars of HNH using the physical
force neccessary to prevent the BNP organising can you?
Comment by JimPage — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:34 am
#45. That would not be surprising. Somebody wanting to cast an “anti-system” vote without too much ideological thinking could go for either a radical left or a radical right party, and in a multi-seat election with more than one vote, they could even split their vote between representatives of both.
In elections in late Weimar Germany, some voters appear to have drifted between the KPD and the Nazis from one election to another, including at times when the paramilitary wings of each were assaulting and even killing each other. These voters hated Weimar and were hurting from the Depression, and as an expression of that, voting for either party would do as far as they were concerned. The high Communist vote in November 1932 appears to have contained some people who had voted Nazi in earlier elections, for example.
Similarly, a more credible British left than currently exists could probably lay claim to a chink of the BNP vote.
Comment by Mark Victorystooge — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:50 am
A lot of talk about whether to call exclusively for a vote for labour. I have two points one that searchlight supporters seem to call for a labour vote when they are most likely to beat them but not for other parties in the same position surely that must change. Yes i am thinking of Peter Cranie in this years northwest european election. Also if Liberals torys and greens were all to withdraw from the election in barking that might boost the bnp so we should tolerate anyone who is mounting a serious campaighn even if a tactical decision is made to back labour.
Comment by james? — 16 December, 2009 @ 9:29 am
No one’s mentioned Fords. Between 20 and 30 thousand jobs lost in a space of less than ten years. We should be saying, it wasn’t immigrants who closed Fords. Fords closed Fords. It wasn’t immigrants who thought that selling off council houses was a good idea. That was Thatcher. It wasn’t immigrants who are failing to build new council houses - which could, with new laws, be ring-fenced and kept from being put on the market. If anything could or should be said to Margaret Hodge, it’s why Gordon Brown promised to build xhundred thousand new council houses and not one has been built.
The key strategies with the BNP when it’s in electoral mode is to argue that it blames the wrong people for our problems. Its solutions are to remove people. The only way you can do that is bring in laws that end up hurting everyone. There is no safe place when fascists are in power.
Comment by Michael Rosen — 16 December, 2009 @ 10:34 am
Firstly I withdraw the word “student” which was an unscientific shorthand term to encapsulate people with no or few community roots. No offence intended towards actual students, who I am sure will be welcomed by local anti-fascists to help with whatever anti-bnp work they are doing, if they are not themselves already local people.
However, I hold to the view that the Cable Street analogy does not work here, and the people linking this to the EDL are off the mark- Whatever the best way to deal with the EDL, their threat may be linked but it is not the same as that from the BNP, not at the moment anyway.
Comment by Armchair — 16 December, 2009 @ 10:43 am
JimPage @ #47: “… you cant see the wet local vicars of HNH using the physical
force neccessary to prevent the BNP organising can you?”
I think “the wet local vicars of HNH” should be encouraged to participate in the forth-coming anti-BNP campaign, along with old ladies, frail men and even theory-obsessed marxists.
A capacity for “physical force” will not be crucial in this parliamentary election.
Comment by Daveyboy — 16 December, 2009 @ 11:18 am
As to “wet local vicars”, I think I would not be wrong in identifying our Jim as a graduate of the Militant Tendency of the early 1980s? They were very fond of denouncing the “wet left”, made up of snivelling CND supporters, vicars and “old dears”.
Comment by lone nut — 16 December, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
#50 Michael - well said. That’s all the point I’ve been trying to make: make the arguments, on doorsteps, in leaflets. Don’t patronise people who are tempted to vote BNP by acting as though they couldn’t understand them.
Arguments can and do change minds. In my view, it’s pretty obvious that yelling and assaulting don’t - on the contrary, they play into the BNP’s hands.
It’s hopeless to say that people who are, right now, thinking about voting BNP are thugs, racists etc. They are the people that you need to reach, to explain why the BNP won’t solve their problems. You won’t do that by treating them with contempt - contempt they don’t deserve anyway.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 16 December, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
“Any effort by anti-fascists to run around after the BNP trying to disrupt their campaign, or carry out stunts like throwing eggs at Griffin, will play into the fascists’ hands by creating the media circus that they thrive on, especially if this tactic is employed by people who live outside Barking and Dagenham. And given the size of the task, street stalls and leafleting tube stations will be ineffective, and is not symmetrical with the doorstep level, street by street, face to face campaigning that the BNP will be doing.”
This is the meat of the article, it is deliberately deceptive.
The egg throwing incident which gets the whatever-the-SWP-is-I-am-not crowd going took place at an attempted press call by Nick Griffin, not when he or any other nazis were doing door to door campaigning. Absolutely no one connected with UAF would disagree with leafleting or doorstepping or any other activity which Nick Lowles might suggest. But that’s not the point. All Nick Lowles (and Socialist Unity) are concerned with is carving out the SWP from the Barking campaign.
Comment by Roobin — 16 December, 2009 @ 12:50 pm
If you are a working class voter whose choice of the BNP has been made because - as has been put to me during campaigning for elections recently - no other party “speaks for the working man”, it would be rather upsetting to read that some people refer to ALL BNP voters as racist or fascist.
Comment by Passing Leftie — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:00 pm
The BNP racialise everything in their election material and blame immigrants, asylum seekers, Muslims etc. for most of this country’s ills. This obviously has an echo with those who vote for them. What else could be clearer? These people blame others for their mythical grievances. Despite their socio-economic situation they are a lot better off than those eat the bottom of the pile. So what’s the problem with calling them racists and in some cases Nazis and fascists?
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
I would take the middle ground between Paddy’s emphatic `black’ position and Andy’s equally emphatic `white’ position (both idée fix) and spread a little reasonable political grey. The fear is obviously that 57 varieties of sectariana will between them nick enough votes off labour in the constituency (say a thousand between them) to let the BNP candidate in. On the other hand, the contrary fear is that this candidate, Hodge, representing New Labour, will not be able to persuade enough pissed off people to come out and vote for her and that the stay at home labour vote will lead to the BNP sneaking in. Would it not then be sensible for local trades unions, especially the Trades Council, allied with interested community organisations, to demand that the local labour party de-select Hodge and adopt a candidate with a socialist programme that can mobilise the working class vote? Perhaps the Trades Council could organise a local meeting to select a respected local candidate with union and community roots and a socialist vision. They could then launch their campaign to have this candidate adopted by Labour. If the campaign is successful the candidate would be adopted by Labour, if it is successful but Labour continue with Hodge the candidate could stand themselves making New Labour look like the problem but if the campaign is not as successful as hoped then the candidate could gracefully withdraw from the race and call for all to vote Labour to make sure the BNP are stopped having at least had the opportunity to raise the issues.
Sorry this has been written very quickly as I am on borrowed access nowadays.
Comment by David Ellis — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
Dream on David. However desirable this would be, it just ain’t going to happen.
Maybe someone from Barking CLP can enlighten us as to what is happening on the front line?
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
“if it is successful but Labour continue with Hodge the candidate could stand themselves making New Labour look like the problem”
Brilliant idea. 3-5 months out from an election, when Labour have already got a sitting MP selected as candidate, lets start a fight to try and persuade them to ditch her.
When they, unsurprisingly, don’t and the entire anti-BNP left (up to and including Labour) have wasted 6 weeks fighting internally over this whilst the BNP talk to voters, let’s consider standing an Independent labour candidate.
I am struggling to think of many ways that you could do more damage to a campaign to stop the BNP.
Comment by reader — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:41 pm
#60
“I am struggling to think of many ways that you could do more damage to a campaign to stop the BNP.”
Well, they then turn up in Barking and throw eggs at Griffin, getting him a massive coverage in the local press allowing him to pose as a democrat and a victim of left wing violence, being prevented from sticking up fro the white working class; then the numpties who threw the egg at him could put up an spokesperson on Newsnight wearing a Fred Perry shirt who stares at his shoes, talks about “fascist counter-revolution” and boasts that he “was the organiser” in the Isle of Dogs when Beakon was elected - a claim that leaves the audience wondering , the organiser of what ??? In fact a performance so woefully bad that the BNP proudly put it up as a you tube on their website, and sent it to their memebrs on BNP TV for a laugh.
Comment by Andy Newman — 16 December, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
Yes Andy best to do fuck all, oppose anti edl protests, bang on about english nationalism being great and generally being obsessed about the SWP. You really are the pits.
Comment by jj — 16 December, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
#62 Better to do f- all then damage the anti-BNP cause.
‘Doing something’ is not the same as ‘doing something useful’.
But of course Andy is proposing doing something - just not what you want to do.
And “Well, they then turn up in Barking and throw eggs at Griffin, getting him a massive coverage in the local press allowing him to pose as a democrat and a victim of left wing violence, being prevented from sticking up fro the white working class” from Andy is absolutely spot on.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 16 December, 2009 @ 2:18 pm
#62
Well I obviously don’t advocate doing nothing; but i do think that it is necessary to think about what interventions are effective, and which are counter-productive.
Sadly, the SWP do seem locked in a non-reflective cycle with regagrd to their anti-BNP activity that is not nuanced to the current political requirements.
Because UAF and the SWP are relatievly important in the anti-fascist movement, it is important to debate the differeing political assumptions, and discuss the pros and cons.
In particu;ar it is necessary to look at how the BNP themselves react, and how the anti-facist activity is perceived by people thinking of voting for the BNP. It is particularly counterproductive to act in such a way that might consolidate the BNP’s vote among some people, and this is a danger we need to be aware of.
Comment by Andy Newman — 16 December, 2009 @ 2:22 pm
I very much doubt that people will decide to vote BNP because of a few broken eggs. Where is your evidence? They would have pretty much already made up their minds.
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
I’m not sure why the article is counterposing certain forms of activity - street stalls and leafleating, for example, with face to face campaigning, as if the two were mutually exclusive. There does need to be a highly visible anti-fascist presence in the borough, as this can help give confidence to the many people who hate the BNP but who might otherwise feel isolated and intimidated by their campaign. People need to feel they’re not alone and have the confidence and arguments to counter the BNP at work or with their neighbours.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that chucking eggs at nazis should be the centrepiece of any campaign. Still. given the fact that Tory MPs have often been used as targets for eggs in the past, it does seem a little peculiar to suggest we should be far more sensitive when it comes to nazis. The strength and success of any campaign, however, will rest on the degree to which local anti-fascist sentiment can be mobilised and people are made aware of the real nature of the threat that the BNP represents. A low key approach doesn’t seem to me to bew consistent with that.
Comment by dennis — 16 December, 2009 @ 3:11 pm
Some people in this post misunderstand why many people vote for the BNP and the nature of voting.
Many are are completely disillusioned by the way the main stream parties are stuffed with people exploiting the system for their own ends. People want to vote against this. So it is completely ineffective putting out leaflets attacking the BNP. In fact if the leaflet implies in any way that they are not main stream it will increase the BNP vote. It would be more economic and probably more effective for the UAF and the SWP to distribute the BNP leaflets themselves. At least that would prevent them getting third party endorsement for being different.
The reality is if you are serious about stopping the BNP you have to stand aginst Hodge and the whole rotten set up. You might not win but you would take the protest vote off the BNP. By the law of unintended consequences it would probably let Hodge in.
In Leeds where the Alliance for Green Socialism have stood in numerous local elections our calculations show that where we stand we cut the BNP vote by 20% comapared with similar wards where we did not stand.
Comment by Garth Frankland — 16 December, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
Garth paints a somewhat rosy picture of the left in leeds, in fact the AGS stand in the most leafy and/or multi-ethnic areas of the north of the city where the BNP have always had derisory votes. AGS chooses not to stand where the BNP poses a threat -or will there be candidates- or will there be candidates in Morley, Robin Hood etc this time?
Comment by Paul Ross — 16 December, 2009 @ 3:32 pm
garth
to think that the left will attract BNP voters!
if you saw the you Gov poll after the June elections-you would have seen the nature of BNP voters more racist etc by far than all other party voters
to deafet the BNp, as UAF argues:
1. confront their racist politics-get the facts out and confront their lies
2. maximise turn out by urging all others to use thier voye-to stop the BNP
3. as for tactical voting-voting for the ultra left with no chance is of limited help-especially if it detracts from the other main parties who polling shows can really beat the BNP
that is the elsson of history
see www.uaf.org.uk for briefing on how to defeat the bnp
http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=90701
http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0907UAF_election_analysis_A4.pdf
Comment by sylvia ebberly — 16 December, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
Thank you for confirming my points about the true nature of BNP voters sylvia.
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
“The Labour Party will be mobilising the vote for for her “
The Labour Party will spend much more time and effort mobilising the vote in Poplar and Limehouse. They would rather stop the left than stop the right.
That’s not even a sneery guess. We saw this in 2005 and 2006, where they diverted all their activists into Bethnal Green to stop Galloway & Respect rather than campaign against the BNP.
Comment by tony collins — 16 December, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
It’s just possible that M.Hodge doesn’t have the stomach for the fight. In which case they’ll give her a damehood and find someone else. Watch the xmas honours. Or has that been done already?
Comment by Michael Rosen — 16 December, 2009 @ 6:18 pm
On Monday night, members of Green Left and London Green Party will put a motion to London Green Party calling upon Barking Green Party not to stand a parliamentary candidate in Barking and Dagenham. There is resistance to this, for many of the reasons outlined above by others, in the Green Party. But in our opinion, despite our complete distaste for Hodge, the alternative is simply terrifying.
The situation is akin to the French presidential election some years ago when the French Left voted for Chirac rather than Le Pen with the slogan: “Better the crook than the Fascist.” It is necessary for the Left in general to wake up and smell the coffee. The BNP are already in the Assembly and the European Parliament. If they succeed in Barking, they are well on the way to becoming part of the mainstream as in Italy. This must be prevented at all costs. There is no organised Left on the ground in Barking. The Labour candidate is the only alternative. We only have months, possibly March, until the election. The time for illusions is past.
Comment by verde — 16 December, 2009 @ 6:36 pm
71 - Or in Coventry South in 1992, for that matter. But that doesn’t mean we have to pick up the slack and campaign for Hodge rather than against the BNP which was the poorly put point of my comment.
Comment by Jota — 16 December, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
So Andy suppose Griffin rallies the faithful in Barking - do you advocate leaving the street to the fascist thugs? What’s your evidence that doing so will actually be helpful in an election, as opposed to destructively raising the fascists confidence and undermining the confidence of those opposed to them?
Comment by christian h. — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:00 pm
The reaction of the KPD to the Hitler’s victory in 1933 was that the Nazis wouldn’t last that long and that after them it would be “our turn”. Couple that with their view that the SPD were social fascists and you get a bit of a flavour of the type of attitude some commentators here are demonstrating. Southpawpunch is the clearest example of this (unless I misunderstood you in which case my apologies).
Does it matter whether the BNP win Barking or not?
Is there essentially no difference between Hodge and the BNP?
Will putting up a candidate up to the left of Labour make it more or less likely that the BNP will win?
Comment by Armchair — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
It seems to me that it is because of New labour (the party of bloodshed and cuts) that the fascists are advancing electorally. To abandon the electoral fight agin the fascists and leave it to the so-called main political parties is to play into their hands.
Comment by Jim — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
Vote Labour, don’t throw eggs at Griffin, be nice to the BNP, understand their voters and treat them with kid gloves in case they get upset, etc. etc. Is this the best you can do? Get a fucking grip comrades!
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
Armchair, I am making no ‘3rd period’ types remarks such as ‘Labour are as bad as the BNP’ our even more ludicrously, ‘first the BNP and then, er, who’ - the SWP, the Southpawpunch party?
Yes, there is a difference between the BNP and Labour. They are quite far apart but nonetheless on the continium of capitalist politics.
Some of the remarks made about Germany, whilst wrong, arise from the fascist behaviour of the Labour equivalent, the SPD, when it crushed the German revolution 15 years before.
And whilst Labour is not fascist, its colonial rule and widespread execution, torture and more used by, for example, the 1945 Labour administration was fascist in places like Malaya, Kenya and Aden (it’s interesting how, unlike Germany, British war criminals are never brought to trial). And possibly now so in Afghanistan.
So whilst a jackbooted version of the Labour party is possible, indeed would be likely if the Left ever got a lot, lot stronger. it’s not that now, and that’s not why Hodge shouldn’t be supported.
She shouldn’t be supported because she is a right-wing capitalist politician and does not meet any minimal requirements that would allow her support from the Left.
I would no more support her than vote Lib Dem, if I lived in a constituency somewhere where it was a choice between a radical LibDem with a chance of winning and a disgusting incumbent Tory MP. A pox on them both.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 16 December, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
#79 You haven’t answered 2 of the questions:
Does it matter if the BNP win Barking or not? (You may feel the answer is implicit in what you said, if so I apologise for being obtuse).
Will putting up a candidate up to the left of Labour make it more or less likely that the BNP will win? (I should add, in your opinion).
Also, as to your hypothetical example, what if the choice was between a radical LibDem and a BNP candidate (incumbent or otherwise)?
Comment by Anonymous — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
Sorry that was me
Comment by Armchair — 16 December, 2009 @ 8:32 pm
1. Yes it does. It matters although it’s not Armageddon, I remember people thinking Beackon’s (then) flash in the pan election (as the first BNP cllr in 1993) as the beginning of the long, dark night. France remains as a bourgeois republic despite years of Fascist (? probably, I’m not sure if they are) FN MPs, and Italy has even had the same in government.
2. Yes, it would. But Hodge can not be supported. Many strikes have a greater danger than benefit. You may get the +5% if you win, but the union may be destroyed if lots of people scab or you lose and the bosses decide ‘never again we will have a strike’. The staying on your knees and thanking the boss for only slapping you and not kicking you, is no option for reds.
3. Spoilt ballot paper. No vote for capitalist politicians under any circumstances, save maybe under national or similar oppression e.g. for ANC front in apartheid South Africa or even, for example, for David Cameron, candidate for British Liberation Front from Luxembourgish occupation in 2020 election - or sometimes for a Labour party, but not for the British Labour party since 1997 and maybe long before that.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 16 December, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
“Well, they then turn up in Barking and throw eggs at Griffin, getting him a massive coverage in the local press allowing him to pose as a democrat and a victim of left wing violence, being prevented from sticking up fro the white working class;”
You’re making all this up Andy. You might just as well claim that UAF intend to carpet bomb the BNP headquarters. It shows your lack of honesty about UAF interventions.
“…then the numpties who threw the egg at him could put up an spokesperson on Newsnight wearing a Fred Perry shirt who stares at his shoes, talks about “fascist counter-revolution” and boasts that he “was the organiser” in the Isle of Dogs when Beakon was elected - a claim that leaves the audience wondering , the organiser of what ???”
Your very patronising attitude towards Martin Smith is completely at odds with the people in Barking we will be meeting door to door. If we meet Fred Perry wearing voters I presume we should shun them according to your criteria? Your elitist method of conducting the Barking campaign will not relate to voters in Barking and as such should be ignored.
“In fact a performance so woefully bad that the BNP proudly put it up as a you tube on their website, and sent it to their memebrs on BNP TV for a laugh.”
I’m sure they often have a laugh at you and your blog. Commenting on how useful it is at attempting to create divisions among the left and attacking fellow anti-nazis. In this case you have sadly failed because no serious anti-nazi in Barking will be following your destructive advice.
Comment by Ray — 16 December, 2009 @ 9:42 pm
paddy garcia are seriously an SP member, because if you are would make clear the views you’re expressing have’nt come from us, it’s getting a little embarrassing. You sound shrill and hysterical, there’s another party i can think of that you might fit in with a little better.
Comment by paul — 16 December, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
The Alliance for Green Socialism stands its candidates where it can and where we think we may get support.
The point I am making is that some of the BNP vote is a protest against the venal nature of the 3 main parties.And we appear to cut it by 20%. Of course we are relatively serious about contesting elections and we are not really in favour of parachuting into an area. It probably takes about 10 years to build up any kind of support. I am more interested in General Election terms about what happens in 3 elections from now.
Just saying the BNP are nazis does not work and sometimes increases the nazi vote. Morley (nr Leeds) where the BNP has a councillor is a former mill town similar in social structure to some of the Lancashire town where the BNP have done well. The AGS has considered standing there but we are not that big. The BNP has not won a single seat on the Leeds Council estates although it has come close in Middleton. They might win seats in the future due to the power vacuum in these areas with the collapse of the New Labour Party. We almost certainly will contest East Leeds in the coming General Election which is the most working class constiuency in Leeds.
Comment by Garth Frankland — 16 December, 2009 @ 10:10 pm
Can you clarify what you mean Paul by being “shrill and hysterical” and why not name the party that you should think I should join?
Comment by paddy garcia — 16 December, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
Ray - I would advise you take heed of what Garth Frankland has said at #84.
Comment by Passing Leftie — 17 December, 2009 @ 9:51 am
#83 “Your very patronising attitude towards Martin Smith is completely at odds with the people in Barking we will be meeting door to door.”
What does this sentence mean? I thought at first you meant that the good folk of Barking were excitedly extolling the skill and passion with which Martin Smith made the anti-fascist case on Newsnight, but then I realised you were talking about what they will say when, in the future, you talk to them.
Incidentally, you can go on about patronising comments all you like, but the fact is Martin Smith’s performance was a huge embarrassment. I have shown the youtube of that performance to five or six friends and colleagues, all vaguely left-friendly but essentially not all that political. All people who need to be reached by any anti-BNP campaign and persuaded to vote. Every single one laughed out loud and said ‘Christ, what a weirdo’, or words to that effect.
There is a real danger that people who comment here forget how people who are really all that interested by politics, let alone Left/anti-fascist politics, see things, and think, and react. I repeat: these are the people you have to reach.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 17 December, 2009 @ 10:21 am
As to whether they can win or not, the key poll to look at was the GLA ward level results for the London Assembly elections, which broke down everyones votes by ward. BNP polled top in 7/17 of the B&D wards- and were in striking distance in another 3
BNP intend to fight 200 seats at the GE- and to exceed 1,000 local election candidates- including a full slate in B&D in their winnable wards
Comment by JimPage — 17 December, 2009 @ 10:50 am
Southpawpunch- You’ve made your position clear, which is positive although I am having to assume from your answer to q2 that you think a left candidate would make it more likely that the BNP would win.
In my opinion the attitude you exhibit are symptomatic of part of the reason that socialists in this country have failed to build a meaningful alternative to Labourism.
Suicidal gesture politics. Wonderful.
Comment by Armchair — 17 December, 2009 @ 11:58 am
I know chaps. Let’s deny BNP the oxygen of publicity.
If that doesn’t work engage them in debate to show up their ridiculous views.
Works every time.
Comment by Public School Lefty — 17 December, 2009 @ 1:04 pm
Southpawpunch’s politics are actually not especially typical of the left in Britain (his views were probably more widespread on the left in the seventies) and I doubt whether the failure of the left to craft a proper challenge to Labour is down to him, or people like him.
Comment by Mark Victorystooge — 17 December, 2009 @ 3:15 pm
So I’ll ask the “be nice to Griffin” brigade again: if the fascists show up in Barking in force, should nothing be done? Where’s the evidence that is a good thing? If they start beating up leftists and immigrants and people of color, what then - pass out some leaflets? Hey I know, let’s just hope they go away if we don’t mention them. What pathetically stupid and defeatist advice.
Predictably, someone mentioned “3rd period” Comintern politics above. Fair enough. But more important than that colossal failure to the rise of the Nazis was the unwillingness of the SPD and liberal parties to confront them. When the time to act came to the “now or never” stage in January 1933, a decade of SPD refusal - and in fact obsession with the “enemy to the left” over the Nazis - made the leadership think, probably correctly, that a call for a general strike and physical confrontation was bound to fail. Either you take the BNP seriously as a threat, or you don’t. If you do it is crucial to make clear right now (as has been done in reaction to EDL rallies) that the fascist thugs won’t rule the public space. If you don’t, then one MP shouldn’t upset you.
As for Hodge, it seems obvious to me from the outside that if there isn’t a strong local left presence already, then standing a left-of-labour candidate is a huge mistake.
Comment by christian h. — 17 December, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
#93
It would be useful, when commenting on events in another continent from where you are based if you first checked upon the facts.
The strategy that is being discussed is related to the actually existing BNP, and their current way of noperating, and the way that they relate to potential BNP voters.
If we were dealing with an entirely hypothetical far right party that were likely to “show up in Barking in force, should nothing be done? Where’s the evidence that is a good thing? If they start beating up leftists and immigrants and people of color” then we would adapt different tactics.
Much of the foolishness that comes from SWP and their co-thinkers simply assumes that the BNP are a rerun of the NF, that the startegy of the ANL can simply be repeated.
In contrast what we actually need to do is examine the currently existing phenomenon of the BNP, how they relate to their potential voters, how they navigate the media, and in particularly how they articulate a sort of subaltern grievance that the concerns of white working class voters are disenfranchised by a liberal metropolitian elite. The enormous difference between now and the 1970s is that while it is certainly not uncontested, the BNP have a fragile but real base on the Becontree estate, and the left have very little standing in the area.
In particular, our experience is that the BNP studiously avoid the type of confrontations that the NF sought; and that 30 years later calling them “nazis” means very, very little to most of their voters.
what is also idiotic, is that from california you feel confident in making a judgment about the EDL - incidently where you are largely wrong - despite some limited overlap, the EDL and simply NOT a street fighting wing of the BNP, nor are they facaists. The EDL are a violent expression of mainstream islamophobia refracted through the medium of a native English tradution of street violence that is sometimes but not exclusively linked to football. Stephen Gash, organiser of the EDL, is NOT a fascist.
The EDL are a public order problem, and are actually not especially political, and the numbskull strategy of the SWP is actually politicising them to a degree, and also the possibility of physical violence is a motivational incentive for the EDL thugs, not something that deters them. The strategy of the left should be to depoliticise the perception of the EDL, and to insiste that they are treated as thugs by the authorities and denied the right to assemble on public order grounds. Treating tham as a political moevemtn actually makes it more likely that their protests will be allowed to go ahead, as the police are much more robust on seeing off street violence than they are dealing with far right political protests.
The aim here is to dent the BNP victory, and that means recognising that the BNp have a base in Barking and Dagenham, and thereofre seeking to relate to potential BNp voters to dissuade them; and also detailed painstaking community campaiging to mobilise the potential anti-facsist majority wothin baring to vote against the BNP.
heroic flying columsn of self-important r-r-revolutionaries who think they are reenacting the ANL ot the battle of cable street are at best a distraction, at worst a disaster.
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 December, 2009 @ 4:44 pm
Well you are the one ignoring reality here Andy. Are you telling me Griffin will run in Barking and not have, say, an election rally or something? And if the BNP are just another bunch of racist politicians, why do you even bother? It’s not like there aren’t scores of them in the big parties.
Your apparent reduction of politics to a TV spectacle would, mind, be more fitting if you were in California. You have, of course, completely failed to produce a shred of evidence that your advice to play nice with fascists for TV works. From experience in many countries there is, however, mountains of evidence that confronting them does work. If you want to claim that you are special, you’ll have to do better than mere assertion, based on nothing more than your childish obsession with the SWP.
Comment by christian h. — 17 December, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
“Much of the foolishness that comes from SWP and their co-thinkers simply assumes that the BNP are a rerun of the NF, that the startegy of the ANL can simply be repeated.”
No, much of the foolishness is stemming from your hypothetical egg throwing scenarios. Your argument that the BNP in Barking need to be treated with kid gloves in case it frightens the electorate is the same tired old argument used by those who didn’t want to confront the BNP in the Isle of Dogs. They and you are falling right into a BNP trap that has been proved very, very wrong for the anti-nazi movement. So either we follow your unproven and mistaken advice and capitulate to the BNP’s agenda or we continue with a strategy that actually got rid of Derek Beackon.
Comment by Ray — 17 December, 2009 @ 5:13 pm
#93. Yes, much is said about KPD ultra-leftism. Much less is said about SPD behaviour and attitudes. When, for example, the KPD announced it would hold marches on May Day 1929 in Berlin, the SPD newspaper announced that it would be the fault of the KPD if Berlin police shot demonstrators. Since the Berlin police were under SPD control, this prediction of police violence was hardly clairvoyant. In fact, dozens of people were to be shot dead on “Blutmai”.
From late 1918 to early 1933, the SPD projected itself as a party of “order” as opposed to “Bolshevist chaos”. This had several results. One, the SPD called Freikorps into being to restore “order”, often through the slaughter of workers or the more radical left whose strikes or soviets threatened “order”. Two, as in Blutmai, the SPD sided almost invariably with the police, even when the police shot demonstrators, and Blutmai was unusual only in the numbers of dead. German Weimar police had pistols and carbines, and often used them to shoot protestors. Third, because Hitler came to power without a putsch but with a legal figleaf, the SPD who loved “order” so much were totally powerless.
Comment by Mark Victorystooge — 17 December, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
The left reaps what is sows; failure to build a local working class alternative = BNP as the working class alternative. The left end up back at square one ie vote Labour or the timless Nazi free zone/Love Music Hate Racism/BNP=Nazi formula.Either that or lets hope UKIP stand to take votes off the BNP.Priceless.
Comment by chuck wilson — 17 December, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
“There is a real danger that people who comment here forget how people who are really all that interested by politics, let alone Left/anti-fascist politics, see things, and think, and react. I repeat: these are the people you have to reach.”
Well I spoke to a number of non SWP and non UAF members who thought he actually came over as a real person rather than a besuited NuLab apparatchik. They liked what he had to say. So na na nana na !
Now that we’ve got the pointless character assassination out the way let’s get back to what’s important. Voters in Barking aren’t going to be coming to the door in a three piece suits expecting rehearsed sound-bites spoken in Estuary English. The last thing we need is to get caught up in the BNP’s war of faux respectability. Let’s concentrate in building a vibrant and diverse opposition to the nazis instead of carping about fellow anti-nazis.
Comment by Ray — 17 December, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
Well said Ray.
It’s not like there are to many players on the feild fighting against Fascism. Cutting through the anti-fascist movement like Andy does is insane. “You can’t defeat the BNP by just shouting Nazi and throwing eggs!” of course you can’t, it’s all PART of the stratagy, albeit an important one.
I baked a yorkshire pudding earlier, are you going to tell me I can’t defeat fascism by eating baked batter?
Comment by Gary McNally — 17 December, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
Building the left alternative can be done and is being done seriously by Respect, Green Party in areas where they can expect 5 figure votes. For historic reasons, Dave Nellist will get a creditable vote in Coventry. That’s as far as the left alternative has got.
In Barking there is a choice we’d rather not have to make, but can only make the choiuce if we think of the impact Griffin as a Westminster MP would have and the advance the fascists would be able to make even more as a result. Margaret Hodge is despicable, to be frank. She was a vile opponent when she was leader of Islington Council and it didn’t start then. She has supported every single anti-working class measure of this government. She is not part of the solution, it is fair to say.
However, there is only one person who can stop Nick Grififn - that’s the horrid Margaret Hodge who is most unlikely to support anything progressive given a choice.
Her election will make no difference to Labour policy, even if they were to form a government. Her defeat will make all the difference to the communities in Barking and to the effect that the BNP will be able to have in London and elsewhere.
I hope thousands of us will descend on Barking to give out UAF leaflets telling people to vote against fascists. We won’t be telling them to stay at home. Who then are they going to vote for to stop Griffin?
Not easy - easy to be ‘principled’ while Griffin gets elected. But to those who need to avoid racist attacks, the only principle is stopping Griffin.
(It’s not the case Andy of throwing eggs etc. - it’s the mass mobilisations that are needed to stop him, voting in the end being the key activity)
Comment by Howard T — 17 December, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
well I am sorry, but the egg throwing incident is not a hypothetical, it is what some of you actually did, in pavlovian response to a press conference called as a provocation by the BNP. You fell for it and ensured that they got much more press, and much more favourable press than they woud have done otherwise.
And it simply does matter that the UAF spokespeople you put up on the Tv in the aftermath seemed amateur, ill prepared and inarticulate.
Christian asks: “Are you telling me Griffin will run in Barking and not have, say, an election rally or something? “
well they will be careful. A set piece election rally is probably unlikely. If they do call such a thing then the best approach is to build a mass campaign of local people to call for the meeting to be cancelled.
How the BNP are likely to campaign is door to door, talking to people, and with reasonably professional literature, including perhaps DVDs. Remember that the BNP has a lot of activists local to the area as well, who will be known (if not necessarly respected) by their neighbours.
remember the disastrous events in the NW during the euro elections after the BNP had actualy been sent packing by a peaceful protests by locals, and then some have-a-go-heros hospitalised a BNP member in a hammer attack, and ensured that the BNP gor brilliant press, and that it was the anti-fascists tarred with being undemocratic.
Idiocy made even worse by Steve Hall ( a Respect member of all things!!) sending out a press release saying what a brilliant thing the attack was!!!
It is true that what is needed is mass mobilisations, but mass mobilisatiosn focuassed on talking to people and persuading. Talking and listening to potential BNP voters and seeking to win them away from that position, or sow doubts in their minds, and mobilisng the latent anti-facist majority in Barking and Dagenham to actually turn out and vote labour.
Look at it this way, if just 10% of tory voters can be persuaded to vote labour to keep out the BNP, then we will succeed. If enough people minded to abstain turn out and vote labour instead, we will succeed.
Now ask yourselves whether out of towners marching through barking shouting “Nazi scum off our streets” at people who have either voted BNP, or are considering it, will be helpful or unhelpful at making locals identify with the anti-BNP campaign.
Ask yourselves whether a ruck in barking where fists fly is more or less likely to win strategic anti-BNP votes from Tories?
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 December, 2009 @ 9:59 pm
Andy, a quick question.
Where would you stand if some pretty pissed off immigrant or an Asian/Black local threw an egg at Griffin?
Comment by anticapitalista — 17 December, 2009 @ 10:23 pm
#103
If it was a spontaneous reaction by a local person then i think that would be fine, becasue we could argue that this was the understandable response of someone being targegetted by the BNP’s politics of hate, and it just shows that the BNP stir up trouble and cause division and discord.
But it would depend on the context, whether or not it was counterproductiev or not. It is a question of political judgement.
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 December, 2009 @ 10:42 pm
What if that person hailed from just across the border in Newham?
Comment by paddy garcia — 17 December, 2009 @ 10:55 pm
I don’t quite agree with Andy, but he’s right in term’s of priorities.
Marching through Barking won’t mobilise local people as it wouldn’t be seen as defensive action to stop Griffin.
It would be a disaster to have a tiny march trumpeted up like something big.
(The march in central London last year after the May election wasn’t exactly a gresat success - in fact it showed how we could understate our case).
The election result will be what has any impact. Nothing else will have any lasting effect.
Comment by Howard T — 17 December, 2009 @ 11:21 pm
Although I think Andy’s position is horribly mistaken and very badly argued, I’d still suggest that it’s not worth spending a lot of time arguing this one, and that instead we should get on with doing what we’re going to do in Barking.
We are not going to persuade Andy and his co-thinkers of the merits of our approach to anti-fascist work, and vice-versa.
Comment by KrisS — 18 December, 2009 @ 1:18 am
“Ask yourselves whether a ruck in barking where fists fly is more or less likely to win strategic anti-BNP votes from Tories?”
You see this is where I think you are being very disingenuous. In order to undermine UAF you try to polarise the debate about tactics by being selective about and misrepresenting our interventions.
You have attempted to characterise the UAF’s intervention based on one egg throwing incident. Completely ignoring the many other very successful interventions where not an egg was thrown.
Perhaps we should be thankful that someone in UAF hasn’t exposed their bare arse to Griffin otherwise I’m sure you would be characterising our intervention thus.
As KrisS points out, no one will be heeding Newman of Swindon in Barking. After all, Andy, shouldn’t you follow your own advice and stop dictating tactics to anti-nazis in an area you don’t live in?
Comment by Ray — 18 December, 2009 @ 1:50 am
Whilst it’s correct to say that a more intelligent approach is required than simply turning up and shouting “Nazi scum” at the BNP, at the same time that is a carricature and distortion of what UAF does. And I’m not aware of anyone in UAF who advocates individual attacks on BNP members.
And it is necessary to continue to point out that whilst the BNP may have put on suits and attempted to look like normal human beings, at its core it remains a fascist organisation. I’m not sure if Andy Newman is arguing that there should be no physical opposition to them when they attempt to hold rallies or press conferences outside Westminster, either armed with eggs or not. I think that would allow them to give the impression of being a mainstream political party, simply part of the ‘democratic process’ as they claim, and in the long run would do far more damage than a few eggs or the odd inept performance on TV by an anti-fascist.
The media is not unimportant, but neither can we allow ourselves to be totally driven by its agenda.
With regard to the EDL, yes they are in a sense part of a islamaphobia that has become mainstream - just look at the stream of vile comments on any article in the Guardian by people who would no doubt descrinbe themselves as liberal, whenever the word muslim or Islam is mentioned. The EDL, however, are also attempting to go one stage further in that they are trying to organise that bigotry into a street fighting force. When they try to march up to the doors of a mosque and challenge the very right of people to live in Britain and practice their religion, what do you suggest people do? Leave it to the police? The EDL may be comprised of people who enjoy a good ruck, but they enjoy intimidating people far more, and an absence of opposition can only embolden them.
Comment by dennis — 18 December, 2009 @ 8:53 am
#109
“When they try to march up to the doors of a mosque and challenge the very right of people to live in Britain and practice their religion, what do you suggest people do? Leave it to the police? The EDL may be comprised of people who enjoy a good ruck, but they enjoy intimidating people far more, and an absence of opposition can only embolden them.”
This is a false opposition.
When they have tried to march to the harrow mosque, then they have taken a step of challenging Muslims within their community, and indeed challanging harmonious community relations n the community as a whole. The first step should be to call on their protest to be banned, if that fails, it is possibel to organise a mass community protest, as happned in harrow.
That is entirely different from the situation of the EDL turning up in the town centres actually hoping for a symeetrical trurn out from the left and local Mulsim youth so that they can kick off.
Th ebest approach here is agains to reveal their essentiallly apolitical and thuggish nature and cal for the state to treat it as a public order matter not a political protest. If the state doen’s call it off, then the best thing is to ignore it, allow the police to kettle them for a few hours in a side street, and deny yhem any excitement. they will then get bored of doing it and give up.
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 December, 2009 @ 9:00 am
#108
“As KrisS points out, no one will be heeding Newman of Swindon in Barking. After all, Andy, shouldn’t you follow your own advice and stop dictating tactics to anti-nazis in an area you don’t live in?”
I am not offering advcie to people in Barking an Dagenham. they will make their own decisions, and for all your hot air, the heavy lifting of thre campign in the borough will be conducted by Hope Not hate supporters, in conjunction with the big trade unions and the daily Mirror.
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 December, 2009 @ 9:02 am
And still Andy has not offered a shred of evidence that playing nice with Nazis for TV works. Let’s be clear: the BNP voter may act out of a sense of his own perceived victimization. But he doesn’t want to vote for someone who’s being publicly humiliated. He wants to feel part of a strong group that can protect him against… foreigners, queers, people who live the high life on his hard-earned quid. If you have evidence the egging incident (which was a specific situation, and it’s laughable to pretend it’s a general strategy) helped the BNP, let’s have it. Well?
In Germany, fascist parties haven’t had MP’s lately, but they have been represented in various state parliaments. The evidence is quite clear. They suck at parliamentary work; so they stay in in those states where they can rule the streets (in some areas at least) like Saxony. They get kicked out the next time around where they can’t.
[Side remark: I am absolutely opposed to physical attacks on individual fascists. We don’t need this kind of machismo on the left.]
Anyway, I suspect here we see the real motivation for Andy’s intervention:
and for all your hot air, the heavy lifting of thre campign in the borough will be conducted by Hope Not hate supporters
Hey look, my outfit is bigger and better than yours! Pathetic.
Comment by christian h. — 18 December, 2009 @ 11:18 am
Credit where credit is due, I do have to thank Andy Newman for one thing; Every time I read anything Andy Newman says about the fight against Fascism, I always gain a little more incite in to how Hitler and the Nazi’s managed to gain a foothold in Germany.
Cheers Andy, but please stop and get serious!
You KNOW that the egging incident was precisely that, an INCIDENT.
You carefully choose to ignore the literature that UAF produce, the succesful mobilization to picket the BNP’s Nazi Red, White and Blue Festival and the positive press across the country after Nick Griffin got egged.
UAF’s phones were ringing off the hooks after Griffin got egged with people wanting to get involved. I think it’s all down to sour grapes on the part of you that you’ve not had the press coverage UAF has had. Get the fuck over it and stop acting like a child. This is the time for unity against the Fascists, not in-fighting!
Comment by Gary McNally — 18 December, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
Please remember to separate the whites the next time you throw eggs at N Griffin.
Comment by Public School Lefty — 18 December, 2009 @ 1:33 pm
Aren’t we are asking the wrong question if we are asking whether eggs should or should not be thrown. Surely we should be discussing the merits of bricks over bats or vice versa? Anybody canvassing for either a New Labour or an alternative left candidate will need protection and they won’t get it from the police or the Daily Mirror only from self-acting political working people.
Comment by Paul Geech — 18 December, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
There may be issues with aspects of UAFs campaign but they have some big plusses. They correctly understand the BNP to be a Nazi party, and unlike Searchlight, they are not spooks.
The one thing the BNP fear is physical force antifascism- which Searchlight are clearly not up to dishing out
And quite simply, Searchlight, their propaganda and tactics, has failed miserably to stop the BNP
Comment by JimPage — 18 December, 2009 @ 4:08 pm
I have been involved in anti fascist work since a young age from turning up to a rock against rascism event to Harrow Mosque. The central organising group throughout the 30 years has been the SWP and the united fronts it has worked in such as the ANL and UAF. During this period the Left and the working class has suffered many setbacks. One of the few areas of consistent success has been anti fascist work. If you compare and contrast the UK and the rest of Europe the difference in how unsuccessful the fascists have been is stark.
To Andy, UAF organised local people in Harrow against the EDL. This was lead by local members of the SWP who have roots in the community. This strategy has been proven over a significant period. Your proposed change in strategy comes with what basis? I know it is a cliche but if it aint broke why fix it?
To the support of Hodge, a tougher question. I see valid points on both sides but I think the key will be the intervention by the left of setting a solid anti fascist, hopefully socialist group in the community. I think it will be very tough to persuade people to vote for Hodge and New Labour given their record. The UAF approach of voting but not BNP seems the right one to me.
By the way Martin Smith has a great record in fighting fascism.
I hope that comrades will treat this post as an honest view and will join me and others in Barking in the up and coming months
Comment by Tom — 18 December, 2009 @ 4:23 pm