Greens will give Salma Yaqoob a free run
Just heard the news!
I am very pleased that the Green Party in Salma’s constituency of Hall Green have voted to withdraw the Green Party General Election candidate and give her a free run.
I have been arguing very strongly for this for a while and also arguing that the decision should be made democratically by local members.
Salma is great, I am very happy to have worked with her in the past and I am hoping to go up and support her General Election campaign.
Her support for the Green Party at the last European Elections was very welcome.
She has also been supportive of ecosocialist ideas and action in RESPECT.
So very good news.
I will be posting more details of how people can support her campaign.
And I am off to work for Caroline on 7th November.
Its also a vindication of the good work of Green Left.
And mail me dates/places/times to support good General Election candidates and I can post them.
Well done to the Greens. V. good stuff indeed.
Comment by Futurecast — 27 October, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
Fantastic news. And it gives the lie to those who claim the Greens will never stand down for the Left. It’s time to recognise we are part of a mosaic of progressive organisations. I look forward to giving what support we can to many of the excellent Green Party candidates in the North West come the General election.
Comment by tlc — 27 October, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
“And it gives the lie to those who claim the Greens will never stand down for the Left.”
Well up until now it was true. Previous efforts at electoral agreements were not so well received as readers of this blog will know: http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3158
Still it’s interesting news nonetheless. Best of luck to Respect up in Birmingham.
Comment by Neil — 27 October, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
This is really positive news and a very big thanks to all those inside the Green Party responsible for making it happen.
On the basis of the feedback we are getting these last few months I am increasingly confident Salma is going to win the Hall Green seat. This decision by the Greens further increases that likelihood. But their decision has much greater significance than Salma’s election chances. The Greens have put a marker down about how the left can work together in all our collective interests.
In Birmingham this is not an abstract issue. The city is controlled by a Tory/Lib Coalition who should be done under the Trade Descriptions Act for labeling themselves the ‘progressive partnership’. The council leader casually announced on the radio over the weekend they are planning 800 jobs cuts. Labour are weak and politically compromised. There is an opening to further genuine alternatives to the parties of war, racism, neo-liberalism and environmental destruction and there is the means to exploit that opening. This decision by the Greens increases the likelihood of the left collaborating together in the city to that end.
Comment by Ger Francis — 27 October, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
Congratulations to all those in the Green Party that have taken this courageous step. It is not just the Birmingham party or Green Left but a substantial body of opinion across the party that has brought us to this point.
The General Election poses an enormous challenge for the left in terms of puncturing the public service cuts consensus of the three old parties, not to mention their racism and war mongering.
While the left is historically weak, there are pockets where the Green Party and Respect are genuinely mass left organizations. If we can co-ordinate and support each other to return MPs willing to fight against the awful consensus of British politics, it will offer hope and a rallying point for the opposition that is inevitable. It will also help us all to provide an anti-racist message against the BNP - the old parties will scapegoat to justify the public service attacks so we expect a mounting debate on race.
Equally, if we can work to prevent candidacies against other left candidates and to support the best placed, this will help maximize the left vote. It will offer a realistic and better rooted alternative in each area where the left stands as we enter the next parliament, which is likely to be a maelstrom. Discussions have already started in the North West with an array of left organizations. This decision will help enormously in pushing co-operation forward over the coming weeks.
Comment by Dirty Red Bandana — 27 October, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
Green Left issued the following statement earlier today which was sent to Andy for posting on this blog but has not been published yet.
Green Left welcomes the decision of Birmingham Green Party to stand aside in the parliamentary constituency of Hall Green to let Salma Yaqoob of Respect contest the general election there. The decision, which was endorsed by 86% of Green Party members in the area, is another step in forming an alliance between those forces on the Left of British politics campaigning against war, privatisation, the ongoing march to environmental disaster and Fascism. We regard this as an historic step in the campaign for the next general election and for progressive politics in this country.
Joseph Healy
Sue Tibbles
Co-Convenors
Green Left
Comment by verde — 27 October, 2009 @ 4:50 pm
In response to may comment “And it gives the lie to those who claim the Greens will never stand down for the Left.”
Neil says …
“Well up until now it was true.”
Sorry to be picky but it was true before this as well. It has been repeatedly stated on this site that the Greens had already agreed not to stand against Kay Phillips in Manchester Blackley. Now I know the SP will always have a problem with the Green Party in Lewisham - but we need to accept that in some places the Left and the Greens will be in competition (that’s electoral politics) but in many places we should be able to reach accommodations.
But if we can’t it shouldn’t be turned into a national line of division - but be seen as a little local difficulty. Build trust and cooperation where we can - minimise the fall out where we can’t.
Comment by tlc — 27 October, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
Build trust and cooperation where we can - minimise the fall out where we can’t.
Hear, hear.
Next step (I hope) - stand aside for Respect in Tower Hamlets
Comment by Strategist — 27 October, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
Great news. Hope that together the united progressive forces will be able to bring off the right result in the seat Salma Yacoob’s is contesting.
A testament to the Green’s democratic insticts and practice that this was decided localy and a great example of the unity of purpose and the putting aside of sectarianism that we desperately need to operate in the anti-fascist sphere too.
Congratulation to the Green Left comrades who led on this campaign for unity behind the best placed left candidate.
Comment by David Rosenberg — 27 October, 2009 @ 6:06 pm
Yay!
Comment by Luke Walter — 27 October, 2009 @ 7:36 pm
Is there any evidence that Salma Yaqoob is ‘on the left’?
Comment by jock mctrousers — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:04 pm
This is a very important and significant development. As a result of this development I have decided to step aside in West Lewisham & Penge and give the left Green Party candidate and Lewisham councillor Romayne Phoenix a clear run and will be calling on green socialists to vote Green.
Comment by Nick Long — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:07 pm
I would have thought being the official leader of a radical left party was a good hint.
Comment by Ger Francis — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:08 pm
#12 well thats a relief i am sure , Nick Long , until recently a Green Party member / supporter , and ex-Socialist Alliance branch chair will sacrifice his 200 votes for a pro-privatisation Party in one of the most deprived boroughs in London
Comment by Anonymous — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:14 pm
Good to see Nick, I hope the left will recognise that the Greens have taken the first step in trying to get some sort of informal left unity going ready for the general election. Lets unite around the left candidates who can win and provide an important counter balance to the swing to the Tories next year.
Heres hoping we will see both Salma and Caroline Lucas sitting next to each other in parliament next year.
Comment by ben — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
Cllr Romayne Phoenix, the only Green Left councillor in the borough, is standing in Lewisham West and Penge, so she should benefit from such unity efforts!
What we do have to do is get people out physically to do some leafletting and canvassing for the good candidates, I am off to Brighton saturday 7th, met at the Eco centre between 10 and 11am.
I am very keen to get up to Birmingham Hall Green….and if you don’t like the Greens or Respect, go and canvass for Dave Nellist or some one else!
Female leadership is in the vanguard and of course Elinor Ostrom has given ecosocialist politics a huge win with her Nobel Prize victory.
Comment by Derek Wall — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:25 pm
As a betting man i have looked up the odds for Hall Green constituency - Respect are 16/1 - bigger than i would have thought i must admit
Comment by sheffielder — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
17- all the more reason to get out and support her!
Comment by ben — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:34 pm
Take those odds! And put a wad on. You’ll thank me later. This is a niche area and on this one the bookies haven’t a clue.
Comment by Ger Francis — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:37 pm
well i agree with you Ger - and that was bigger than a 16/1 chance itself
Comment by sheffielder — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
No one is a shoe in but there are now a number of excellent potential members of parliament, where a certain amount of work has been put in.
We have to make history by putting in enough work to get them elected, outside my party and Respect, another person who looks electorally strong and has good politics is Dai Davies the independent socialist MP for Blaneau Gwent.
And if any one wants to help with my election in Windsor, it would be welcome not that I can promise good odds at present!
Comment by Derek Wall — 27 October, 2009 @ 8:56 pm
Very welcome news, a principled and pragmatic choice by Birmingham Greens. I hope this is reciprocal and a sign of things to come.
Comment by Nick Foster — 27 October, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
Fantastic attitude by the Green Party and one I hope will encourage even greater cooperation between Green Left and socialists of other parties and none. Unless all of us together help organise a principled and effective Left alternative in this country the next few years may be very dire indeed. Hang together or hang apart, and all that.
Comment by Manzil — 27 October, 2009 @ 9:54 pm
Can you bet outside of birmingham (a classically opportunist question obviously)?
Comment by johng — 27 October, 2009 @ 11:24 pm
Excellent news that the Green is out of the picture.
Now if only a socialist stands against non-socialist, Salma Yaqoob.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 28 October, 2009 @ 3:06 am
25. At 3.06am one of the reasons why the left stays small and irrelevant crawls out of the woodwork to explain why the rest of the world is wrong again. Priceless…and utterly pointless.
Comment by tlc — 28 October, 2009 @ 6:21 am
I just assumed Southpaw was advancing a strategy for left unity. Get a real sectarian headbanger to go up against Salma and unite the genuine left against such lunacy.
Now, the Greens declaration in Birmingham is a real welcome breakthrough- something we should not only welcome but build on.
And in that spirit, as a respect member, I just made a £10 donation to the Tamworth Greens who had their inaugral meeting this week.
They will probably blow it on muesli and Ecover but what the hell!
Comment by Robm — 28 October, 2009 @ 7:26 am
Well, it’s a long way from the French Front de Gauche which is in the process of making some *real* left advances:
http://www.tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com
Our of curiosity, regarding Yacoob’s ‘left’ credentials,I wonder if this entry on Wikipedia is accurate?
“Yaqoob also wrote an article in a Muslim affairs magazine, Trends, edited by Inayat Bunglawala, which imagined an Islamic Republic of Great Britain. The article concluded with the author Salman Rushdie fleeing the country.”
Comment by Andrew Coates — 28 October, 2009 @ 10:08 am
And Andrew you are very long way from doing anything constructive.
We know you dislike Greens and Respect but why not actually promote a candidate for the General Election you might support?
Comment by Derek Wall — 28 October, 2009 @ 10:11 am
Being a bit of a wrecker and splitter eh?
I would heartily support John McDonnell MP, for starters.
Comment by Andrew Coates — 28 October, 2009 @ 10:27 am
That’s better, thanks.
Comment by Derek Wall — 28 October, 2009 @ 11:18 am
Re 28: It was a piss take, written for a student mag called Trends, when she was 18 or something, at least a good decade before she got involved in the anti-war movement, and dragged from up bowels of anonymity by the Islamapobes at Harry’s Place in one of their periodic, and ever pathetic, attempts at a smear. See for yourself, (not that I expect it will make any difference of course):
http://www.divshare.com/download/launch/1168362-52f
Comment by Ger Francis — 28 October, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Yes, this is a bit of good news and whilst it will help Respect get elected it will also help keep Respect honest on the environmental front too. Good news all round.
Comment by David Ellis — 28 October, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
David, have you ever seen anything to indicate that respect needs help keeping honest on environmental policies?
Comment by Mikey — 28 October, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
#34 Nope, but every little helps.
Comment by David Ellis — 28 October, 2009 @ 1:17 pm
As we have seen from Ireland, Green Parties are not always honest on the environment, this is why we need in my humble opinion to build ecosocialist political networks to make the greens greener and the reds redder.
One of the gains from this process is the common work between some members of Respect and some members of the Green Party.
Comment by Derek Wall — 28 October, 2009 @ 1:41 pm
I don’t know why Anonymous thinks the Greeen Party is pro-privatisation. Even senior members not on the left have spoke out against PFI, the railways, Foundation Schools/Hospitals.
He or She is living in lunacy land. There has happily been a recent shift further to the left and this is to be welcomed. I am delighted for the Left that comrades such as Nick are standing down. If we can work together at least the next neo-liberal government will be held to account with a few socialists, whether they be Green Party, Respect or otherwise.
Comment by James Youd — 28 October, 2009 @ 3:58 pm
No, a socialist general election would go as follows.
Try and stand socialist candidates in as many constituencies as possible and start from the most likely constituency. Ignore all non-socialist opposition in deciding where to stand – i.e. Tories, Labour, Yaqoob, Greens, BNP - but do take into consideration, and seek to reach Left unity, when there is a credible socialist standing, even a very odd one e.g. Galloway, right through to real ones e.g. SWP and SP members.
I make no suggestion of fighting there just to queer Yaqoob’s pitch. But that constituency should be measured for its Left strength like anywhere else and her candidature is as irrelevant to the Left as would be that of someone from the Natural Law Party.
Yaqoob isn’t a Left, or a socialist. I’d love to see her lapdog Ger Francis list ten things socialist she has done.
I’ll give her two pluses myself - her anti-war work and anti-Islamaphobia stuff - but a (few) LibDems would think and act similarly on these matters.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 28 October, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
While you are dreaming this stuff, I will be out canvassing for candidates who actually exist.
Comment by Derek Wall — 28 October, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
‘I’d love to see her lapdog Ger Francis list ten things socialist she has done.’
Well I can start the ball rolling, she spoke in support of striking council workers in the dispute over single status.
9 to go.
Comment by up the posties!! — 28 October, 2009 @ 5:51 pm
So SPpunch, you obviously adhere to the boxing metaphor a little too literally by delivering rightwing jabs before your rather slow left. Why don’t you try explaining your definition of what constitutes ‘left’ or ’socialist’ instead of acting like an abusive and Islamophobic fool? Are you suggesting that because SY does not fit your definition of socialist, this makes her politics irrelevant? I would note in reply that her politics seem more relevant by an order of magnitude compared to yours - yes, she has an audience!
Definitions of left or socialist arise from the political context such as opposition to war, privatization and support for strikes and mass movements. It was how the left was defined in the first world war, in the 1930s and even in 1968. There is no timeless thread.
So many fools that want to be the judge. Why not apply to be a magistrate?
Comment by Dirty Red Bandana — 28 October, 2009 @ 6:24 pm
@DRB - Whilst I don’t generally deem to answer baseless slurs (I’m ‘Islamophobic’ - like how can that possibly be derived from what I have written above?) Clearly you are a moron but I will use your witterings as an opportunity.
Those worthy of support were defined well, on this blog, earlier this month, by someone called ‘ghost of highgate’.
S/he said these are “based primarily in an understanding of the class antagonism under capitalism and seeking to promote the interests of the working classes within this system (including possibly the overthrow of the latter). A politics which sees class as the dominant and primary defining inter-personal relation under the present system.
Anything else can fuck off, basically.”
I agree. So those to the Left of Labour are such. I can see how some in Labour would argue some MPs there do this as well, although I think they are wrong.
I think Respect Renewal could be either. Galloway passes but I haven’t seen enough positive about Yaqoob to suggest she does, rather the opposite although I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 28 October, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Bascially southpawpunch your looking for excuses to bitch from the sidelines and do exactly fuck all to try an ensure a fairer more progressive Britain yeah?
Comment by ben — 28 October, 2009 @ 10:45 pm
It’s amazing how the left can shoot itself in the foot. The most likely candidate to the left of Labour to have a chance of winning a seat is Salma Yacoob. That’s the reality.
Yet much of the left (true to form) have special reasons not to support her, preferring of course to go off and support their own candidate who will get 221 votes (17 more than the Peoples Front of Judea managed last time, but of course on a more principled programme).
The Green Party have acted in a creditable way - standing aside to give a free run to the recognised left candidate. They at least can claim to be a serious party even if they aren’t hardened socialists.
I’d be interested to know (particularly from Southpawpunch) what socialist principles are lacking in any candidates to left of Labour. To me the one that overides all else is opposition to imperialism, not where we stand on local council policies, for example, important as they are. So where has Salma Yacoob failed on fighting imperialism. I could certainly give examples where the hardened socialist left have failed in the past, but as the call themselves socialist revolutionaries, we’ve no problems as they must be more left and more militant.
Comment by Howard T — 28 October, 2009 @ 11:09 pm
How ridiculous and sad you are SPpunch (not much of a punch either). If ‘anything else can FO’, then your party/group/sect/blog will live out its sad existence in the telephone box holding conferences and arguing about who picks up the telephone. Salma Yaqoob defines herself as a socialist deriving her sense of injustice and equality from her faith not your textbook. I see no reason to hold that against her. She has done more to consistently undermine this appalling government than you are ever likely to even consider.
The vision of building a broader left that can rally against neo-liberal politics and worse is how Respect defines itself. This is a historic necessity and the strategic co-operation with the Green Party reflects the urgency of this requirement to rebuild the left tradition on different foundations to the past. Salma Yaqoob has already led in shaping this different type of left.
Your quote from some undead entity in the ether reflects why you have no concept of what it is to translate political conviction and insight into mass support. As I noted above, you derive your impoverished concept of ‘left or socialist’ from tired principles that leave you marginal rather than the political context in which you live (which is how those you so valorize defined it, strangely enough).
You obvious lack of a reasoned argument also serves to demonstrate that you do have a problem with the same left Islamophobia that hides behind various covers in some of the duller sections of the British left.
Comment by Dirty Red Bandana — 28 October, 2009 @ 11:53 pm
@Ben. You know that you are writing rubbish as you know nothing about my record.
I have worked, including at a national level, volunteering for both the Socialist Alliance and for Respect (in its early days) and have worked then and now for various single issue campaigns and previous Left political formations.
If there are Left candidates in the election (which would include Galloway and maybe more from Respect). I will work to support them as well as continue my other work. I have been on the knocker, in every election, since 1983.
@Howard. It may be true that Yacoob is Left of Labour. Thatcher, circa 1979, was Left of (present) Labour. It is myself who used that term, I should have concentrated on the other term ‘socialist’ and I give a working definition above (from ‘ghost of Highgate’) about what that may mean.
There is a minimum that Lefts can support; the bar doesn’t need to be high (there was an awful lot of wishy-washy flannel pronounced by the Socialist Alliance) in the same way that even a ‘left’ Green wouldn’t support a Left candidate who was completely unsound (to them) on environmental issues.
I wouldn’t see anti-imperalism, or any other single part, as being capable of defining who is Left. The LibDems, BNP, (SNP?) all call for the withdrawal of UK troops from Afghanistan.
All I have seen of Yaqoob is that she wouldn’t pass any reasonable definition of being a socialist but I really would be happy to be convinced to see that she, and say Boris Johnson and Jack Straw, really are socialists. Obviously, the more Reds, the better.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 29 October, 2009 @ 12:17 am
@sheffielder
Who is offerig 16/1 against Salma? Let us know as I can see a good fund-raising opportunity. All proceeds to good causes, natch.
Comment by Anonymous — 29 October, 2009 @ 8:45 am
all I’ve seen of southpawLunch is that they’d ‘pass any reasonable definition of being an idiot’
Comment by JFK — 29 October, 2009 @ 8:46 am
I’m not familiar at first hand with Birmingham but my impression from a distance is that Salma Yacoob is a well-respected activist locally who has a principled, radical and nuanced take on issues affecting the communities of her locality.
And when I have seen her, for example, on Question Time, and speaking at national demonstrations, or read reports of what she has said,to be honest she strikes me as a more principled left winger than Galloway.
We know that the outcome for the left from the next election is not going to look to pretty and we will need some individuals with a national political profile to relate to and to support the struggles against the coming Tory government. The Greens have made it more possible that Salma can be one of these individuals. That ought to be welcomed.
Comment by David Rosenberg — 29 October, 2009 @ 8:59 am
13-1 at ladbrokes online can’t find any others.
good luck salma
Comment by non-partisan — 29 October, 2009 @ 9:11 am
‘I wouldn’t see anti-imperialism, or any other single part, as being capable of defining who is Left. The LibDems, BNP, (SNP?) all call for the withdrawal of UK troops from Afghanistan.’
The Lib Dems SUPPORT the war in Afghanistan. The BNP don’t, while entustically promoting the racism it generates. Politicians who are implacable in their opposition to both are few and far between, and objectively a million times more socialist than those whom James Connolly contemptuously dismissed as ‘gas and water’ socialists; the ones who mouth internationalism and sing the ‘Internationale’ while downplaying imperialism and the hold of reactionary ideologies in working class.
At a time when the BNP is on the forward march and the British Army is busy bombing Johnny Foreigner any socialist worth their salt would instinctively support people like Salma, because of her opposition to war and racism alone, and irrespective of the rest of her programme. But in Salma’s case the issue is even more straightforward because the totality of her programme is explicitly of the radical left.
This week her supporters are distributing 20,000 leaflets in Sparkbrook and Springfield wards which carry the following comment about the recession:
‘The economy is in a mess. Unemployment is climbing towards 3 million. More than one million young people are now out of work. Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Tories all say slashing public spending and cuts in public services are the answer to this crisis. We need government investment NOT cutbacks to get the economy moving again. And if we want to make savings, how about these:
• £100 billion saved by scrapping Trident.
• £4.5 billion (&countless lives) saved every year by ending the war in Afghanistan.
• £4.9 billion saved by scrapping ID cards.
• £12 billion clamping down on corporate tax avoidance.
These savings should be used to finance house building, public works and job creation programmes to get the economy back to work.’
In short, a basic socialist argument about the need for investment to drag the economy out of recession. Now, maybe things are very different in other local authorities, but I can say for a fact there is no elected politician in Birmingham who says anything this remotely left wing. With Birmingham City Council pitching 800 jobs cuts Salma will be unique in not just opposing the cuts, which Labour will also do, but in offering a broader political alternative to the arguments behind them.
The reality is that anybody who follows what Salma says know full well her politics and, as the Greens have demonstrated, know full well that her victory at the General Election would be a victory for all the movement. On what we can already predict will be a depressing election night, I would much rather the story about minority parties success focuses on Salma, Caroline, George and others than the BNP. That thought alone should be enough to focus minds. Those who share this view, if they are not otherwise engaged, are more than welcome to come to Birmingham and get involved in Salma’s campaign. She can be contacted on: birminghamrespect@hotmail.com
Finally, ignore the bookies! The election for the Hall Green constituency is going to be a tight three way race which Salma can definitely win.
Comment by Ger Francis — 29 October, 2009 @ 9:39 am
Good points and I hope she pulls it off… but what about hall green and kings heath wards? she could well lose the whole thing there, and the libdems have a pile of votes as big as her pile is the two wards u mentioned.
Comment by up the posties!! — 29 October, 2009 @ 9:48 am
Which is why she needs some practical support and not just on the key board?
‘more than welcome to come to Birmingham and get involved in Salma’s campaign. She can be contacted on: birminghamrespect@hotmail.com’
I hope some readers will be joining me to help Caroline Lucas or take up the call to support Salma or if unhappy with the Greens and Respect, promote other candidates in other constituencies in a practical way.
Dai Davies in Blaneau Gwent also comes to mind, most people on the left seem to forget that he is already an MP and pushing some strong green and socialist policies, it would be tragic if he lost at the General Election.
Comment by Derek Wall — 29 October, 2009 @ 10:07 am
‘The economy is in a mess. Unemployment is climbing towards 3 million. More than one million young people are now out of work. Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Tories all say slashing public spending and cuts in public services are the answer to this crisis. We need government investment NOT cutbacks to get the economy moving again. And if we want to make savings, how about these:
• £100 billion saved by scrapping Trident.
• £4.5 billion (&countless lives) saved every year by ending the war in Afghanistan.
• £4.9 billion saved by scrapping ID cards.
• £12 billion clamping down on corporate tax avoidance.
These savings should be used to finance house building, public works and job creation programmes to get the economy back to work.’
I think this is an excellent, clear and concise start to a left electoral program. I cannot believe the sectarian fantasies some have come up with to try and weasel out of backing Salma.
Comment by kieran — 29 October, 2009 @ 11:00 am
I would hope that this outbeak of good sense be extended to everyone turning up to the SWP brokered “Left Unity” meeting this week- and at very elast a non agression pact among the left being brokered
Comment by JimPage — 29 October, 2009 @ 11:28 am
If Ger Francis is running Yaqoob’s campaign, then I predict disaster.
His knowledge of Connolly (and especially for an Irish socialist), and his familiarity with other issues, is shocking.
He claims “Gas and Water socialists are those who “mouth internationalism and sing the ‘Internationale’ while downplaying imperialism and the hold of reactionary ideologies in working class.”
No they’re not. In the original context they were those, in the north of Ireland, favouring municipal socialism but ignoring imperialism as in the (then) occupation of the whole of Ireland by Britain.
So not singing the ‘Internationale’ at all but instead singing ‘God Save The King’ or (maybe The Soldiers Song), or at least doing nothing to change the tune. But it is of s little direct relevance.
Yaqoob is good on the war - she calls for its end. But, as I said, that is not enough to define anyone as a socialist.
Because, to correct Francis, the Lib Dems, DON’T support the war in Afghanistan in that they call for the same as Yaqoob.
“(On 22/9/09 the LibDems) became the first major political party in Britain to call formally for an end to the war in Afghanistan. Party delegates voted to adopt a policy which demands that the Government focuses on concluding the Afghan military mission and concentrates on diplomacy. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6844041.ece
And who else do you think would sign up for
“• £100 billion saved by scrapping Trident.
• £4.5 billion (&countless lives) saved every year by ending the war in Afghanistan.
• £4.9 billion saved by scrapping ID cards.
• £12 billion clamping down on corporate tax avoidance.”
Yes, again the LibDems, explicitly for the first three; and what party will not say, ‘of course we oppose tax avoidance’.
And the rest of the programme “We need government investment NOT cutbacks to get the economy moving again…finance house building, public works and job creation programmes to get the economy back to work.” is official government policy!
Labour claim they will, overall, not make cuts but spend there way out of the recession and spend money doing all those things. (The Tories say they won’t be able to not make cuts).
Parts of the Respect programme may make the party a Left party (although I fear that which is reported is selective).
But what about Yaqoob? What is her individual record?
Any union militancy history?
Is she is on the side of the workers or the bosses?
What about things like civil liberties - even some left Labour MPs sometimes argue in support of those for being victimised by the cops; the thing I remember about seeing her on TV was her gushing support of the police.
Any socialist has a minimum of what they can support. Even most Labour Party members would consider it wrong to vote LibDem in a constituency where they are the opposition to the Tories. The LibDem wouldn’t meet their minimum.
Why do socialists here also not have minimums that they judge candidates by?
I do and, as yet, have seen no evidence that Yaqoob meet that bar.
Believe me, I supported some very wet candidates in the Socialist Alliance but she hasn’t convinced me yet that she meets even that low bar.
Comment by Southpawpunch — 29 October, 2009 @ 12:53 pm
The Lib Dems supported the invasion of Afghanistan; they oppose the call for the immediate withdrawal of British troops; they support the Nato mission in. Of course they are for “concluding” military operations. So is General Dannat. They all want to conclude it - after they have “won”.
If you can’t tell the difference between who is anti-war and who is not, then I think we can all do without your yardstick for who qualifies as on the left.
Comment by Nas — 29 October, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
One more thing to co-operate on- the proposal by Ministry of Justice to raise the election desposit to £5,000 in a specific and stated tattempt to reduce the number of candidates standing for election This will decimate both socialist and green election campaigns if it goes through
Comment by JimPage — 29 October, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
SouthPaw Rightie - if you cannot see why SY is a left candidate then the problem lies with your definition. Endless quotes from dead Russians, Germans and Irishmen just will not wash. The irony is that they would never have been so hopelessly dogmatic in their interpretation - reading and setting 10 commandments that all ‘principled socialists’ must obey before they are allowed in the kingdom of heaven will not do.
Definitons of left are context dependent. This is precisely the reason why so many socialists get themselves in knots about the Green Party and fail to see how the modern world changes the definition of left or socialist.
Comment by Dirty Red Bandana — 29 October, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
Not only is Out To Lunch wrong about the Lib Dems, and misses the point about Connolly and Second International socialism, he apparently does not even understand the difference between being anti-war and anti-imperialist. Today’s Guardian carries a gushing piece about Tory candidate Rory Stewart, a former diplomat in Afghanistan who, anytime I heard him speak, provided a very informed and eloquent critique of the occupation which certainly echoes some of those of the anti-war movement. But nobody would still suggest he is anti-imperialist. And only the completely stupid would equate the pro-war Lib Dems as being the same as any anti-imperialist candidate.
As for ‘Is she is on the side of the workers or the bosses?’ Perhaps if you had attended the protest by Unite workers in Birmingham city centre opposing their sacking by 2 Sisters last week, and saw their enthusiastic reaction to Salma joining them, you would not ask such questions. But maybe that does not count as ‘evidence’ of anything to you. Nor the fact that when Birmingham City Council come gunning for council workers as they are planning Salma will be their most steadfast and sincere ally as she was during the Single Status dispute. I suspect in your world short of chest beating about being a ‘revolutionary socialist’ nothing much else counts. Your ignorance about Salma and civil liberties does not even merit a reply. Suffice to say she was raising concerns about the Prevent agenda months ago, and to my knowledge was the first politician to do so.
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