GARY McKINNON - AN EXPERT VIEW
Kevin Poulson is a former hacker, and he wrote this excellent summry of the case in the Threat Level column on the “Wired” web-site a couple of weeks ago
British UFO Hacker Gary McKinnon Is Coming to America
By Kevin Poulsen July 30, 2008 | 12:33 pm | Categories: Crime
Threat Level extends its warmest welcome to hacker Gary McKinnon, who just lost his extradition appeal to the U.K.’s highest court and will soon be pressing his search for extraterrestrial life from the confines of a U.S. detention facility.
Federal prosecutors in New Jersey and Virginia have been trying to extradite the 42-year-old Londoner for six years to put him on trial for penetrating over 90 unclassified Pentagon systems in 2001 and 2002 — and allegedly crashing some of them. In interviews, McKinnon has admitted the hacking spree (though not the damage), which he says was a search for evidence of a military UFO coverup.
Apparently he was stoned through a lot of it, which explains why most of the intrusions were into Army computers, when everyone knows the Air Force is hiding the UFOs. McKinnon’s noble quest for the truth about extraterrestrial life also obliged him to leave this message on an Army computer in 2002: “U.S. foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.”
McKinnon is a cause célèbre in Britain. Playing on stereotypes, he’s persuaded the more gullible sectors of the British press that American spooks want to ship him to Guantanamo, or put him in prison for 60 years. But McKinnon is a petulant child who refused even the mildest sanctions for crimes that he’s largely admitted conducting.
According to his lawyers, the United States offered McKinnon a deal of six months to a year in U.S. federal custody, followed by repatriation by the U.K., where he’d be eligible for parole after six months. McKinnon turned it down, then went running to the U.K. courts whining that the big bad Americans were trying to extort him into pleading guilty. You think? That’s what a plea bargain is, slick.
And six to 12 months is quite a bargain indeed. It’s minimum security camp time: We’re talking ping-pong tables and a sunny running track. Now he’s looking at the same kind of sentence U.S. hackers get — measured in years, not months, and based on the financial losses a jury finds him responsible for.
The House of Lords on Wednesday said it was troubled by some aspects of the plea negotiations — such wheeling and dealing over a defendant’s fate is alien to the United Kingdom — but it upheld McKinnon’s extradition order. The hacker now vows to take his case to the European Court of Human Rights, which surely has nothing better to do.
So is it not patronising that a leading voice on Aspergers said that GM would’ve been unable to understand that he was doing wrong? Do some just seek victim idolatry?
Comment by Carl — 13 August, 2009 @ 9:35 am
Has this article been posted to buttress the claims made by Andy Newman about this case on a previous thread? Is it now necesary to resort to a sub-Peter Hitchens style gloating and sarcastic rant to bolster Newman’s ‘case’ (i.e the U.S. Government’s case , for they are one and the same)against McKinnon?
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 10:43 am
Yes the highest violent crime rates in the developed world and the highest (per capita) prison population. The American justice system is a shining light to the rest of us especially in terms of its impact on black people and reducing unemployment. “And six to 12 months is quite a bargain indeed. It’s minimum security camp time: We’re talking ping-pong tables and a sunny running track”. Yes left wing commentators usually think that prison life is tough - all violent intimidation, drugs and male-rape. How nice of our American friend to enlighten us. I’m booking a nice relaxing holiday in a Federal Penetentiary as we speak.
Comment by Bill Scott — 13 August, 2009 @ 11:30 am
Is this blog now guest edited by the Project for a new American Century? The rhetorical style is virtually identical: Petulant whiners appealling to the European Court (which has nothing better to do), anti-American prejudice, etc…
Andy Newman has disingenuously conflated criticism of the US legal system with chauvanist posturing in the Daily Mail. But by the same tortured logic criticism of Saudi legal standards would ba an example of western ‘judicial colonialism’ and nationalist hysteria. It’s just nonsense.
It’s shameful stuff, and depressingly reminiscent of the old stalinist trick of guilt by association. Maybe he should try and evaluate an argument on the basis of what’s being said, rather than who is saying it.
Comment by J Jones — 13 August, 2009 @ 11:56 am
Andy
Come on comrade, this is not an excellent piece it is a justification for hounding this man and the wretched treaty; and an insulting on at that, before you post something like this up your really should tell us a little more about its author Kevin Poulson.
Two points you simply refuse to accept,
1/ The US justice and penal system is so classed based that [it should] make it impossible for any socialist worth their salt to support it.
2/ The treaty in question is not between equal partners, it is so far one sided even NL supporters of US imperialism recognize this fact.
if your able, take some advice from someone who bears you no malice, stop digging and get back to doing what you do best.
Comment by mick hall — 13 August, 2009 @ 12:19 pm
Good grief, this article reads like a right-wing tabloid newspaper especially the line re the prison system …’It’s minimum security camp time: We’re talking ping-pong tables and a sunny running track.’ I had to double-check I wasn’t reading the Mail or The Sun as this is the crap they spout, holiday camps and ping-pong games. Yeah, right!
And this rubbish about 6-12mths being a ‘bargain’ is utterly naive and actually offensive. Frankly, do these people actually understand the prison system and its function, in both the UK and the USA? I don’t think they do. This article is utter right-wing bilge, not substantial in facts nor evidence, it is from a personal perspective.
Comment by Louise — 13 August, 2009 @ 12:26 pm
Vengeful, spiteful, sadistic, disgusting and disgraceful bit of blogging unless this is the Norman Tebbit Appreciation Society website in which case `Bravo!’
Comment by David Ellis — 13 August, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
Andy,
has this chap in some way offended you? You seem to be leading the witch-hunt with scant regard for his rights as a British citizen.
Comment by The Scotland Manager — 13 August, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
According to Wikipedia, Kevin Poulsen is a hacker who got sent to prison. Upon release he joined the security services and then the media and is now using his skills to hunt “sex offenders” on My Space. He repudiates his hacking past which consisted of money laundering, reactivating phone lines for a friends virtual escort agency and taking over the phone lines of a radio station in order to win a Porsche. Hardly a spokesperson for the left.
Comment by Ray — 13 August, 2009 @ 1:02 pm
Hardly a spokesperson, nor a particularly perceptice critic; as has been pointed out , his ‘expertise’ is suspect , and is apparently his excuse for gung-ho rhetoric and bigotry about prison and europeans. Isn’t it time someone with the basic skills fired up a forum that can steer clear of this and some of the other oddball stuff that Andy posts. Suggested title ‘NotTheAndyNewmanShow’ ………
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
For a timely reminder of conditions in America’s ‘Federal holiday camps’ take a look over at counterpunch.org. Alexander Cockburn’s has an interesting article on the fate of the ‘Cuban 5′ in one of Miami’s premier establishments.
“In those first 6 months in “solitary confinement,” we had a shower inside the cell so you can bathe whenever you want. But you get everything in the cell wet when you take a shower. You’re in the cell 23 hours a day. And one hour a day of recreation where they take you to another place. In Miami, it was a bit bigger and with this grid through which you could see a little piece of the sky. You could tell if it was day or night, and a bit of fresh air would come through. The regimen was strict. They used to punish prisoners who commit a serious indiscipline. There we were 23, some times 24 hours a day, inside those 4 small walls, with nothing to do. It’s very difficult from a humane point of view. And many people couldn’t take it. You could see them start to lose their minds, start screaming.”
Gerardo Hernandez
Comment by J Jones — 13 August, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
Andy, your attitude to this man and his case is really, really bizarre.
Comment by Jonny Mac — 13 August, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
Yet another to add to the list of topics Newman spouts off about but knows next to nothing. Why don’t you stick to expressing opinions on matters you have a modicum of knowledge about?
Comment by Doug — 13 August, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
It really isn’t obvious how taking the side of US prosecutors against this man meets any usual definition of the word “socialist”. In some parts of the world the US feels free to assassinate people it doesn’t like and in others it is obliged to use a legal process which contains legislation its own lawyers have drafted.
Comment by Liam — 13 August, 2009 @ 3:32 pm
Yip - as I said McKinnon left notes claiming lots of political reasons for his attacks but not one mentioning his so-called pursuit of “UFO’S” - this brilliant caveat only came about after his arrest and meeting with a lawyer.
He could have had his punishment long done and dusted if he had been man enough to face the time as he was man enough to commit the crime. 6 - 12 months low security? Hardly the end-of-the-earth scenarios painted in the Daily Mail.
And as for the Aspergers element, he knows right from wrong. And unless I am mistaken, this human condition is also present and known about beyond borders, including the US.
The truth is that McKinnon and his legal team have played a great game of obfuscation for populist support that has reeled in loads of suckers, and having read the comments in the last post on this subject and this one it is abundantly clear that very, very few really know any of the real facts of this case or the implications, having solely been sucked in by these populist Daily Mail fallacies.
Amazing.
“U.S. foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.”
Comment by kareem — 13 August, 2009 @ 3:44 pm
Obfuscation indeed , Kareem, who presumably bases this latest rehash of his already refried claims from the other thread on his being one of the ‘very, very few’ who ‘really know any of the real facts of this case’. It matters not a jot to me (or , it would seem, most of the other posters) if McKinnon’s got asperger’s or anything else, sticking a variety of spanners in the US military machine is a reasonable and defensible act. Kareem stated on the other thread on this subject that damage inflicted included disruption of naval supplies - take that to include weaponry, bombs and missiles that would otherwise have been dropped on civilians - so , in fact McKinnon’s actions may actually have saved lives! He is , in fact, a hero for peacelovers! Hooray! As for the rest of their supplies , I’m sure the U.S. navy could have ‘gone fishing’ if they were hungry. Whatever his motives, whatever his state of mind, what he did was actually damaging and embaraasing to U.S. military interests, which are (do we really have to tell Kareem and Newman this?)of course inimical to peace, progress and freedom , and the only reason the U.S. state wants to have him all to its poor ickle self is to puff its chest up yet again and say ’see what happens when you f+++ with us’.
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
seabiscuit: “his expertise is suspect…”
I’d say that Poulson’s technical expertise regarding computers, software and networks is elite. But his politics stink to heaven. Andy uses Poulson’s expertise as a hacker to pass off his political views as similarly authoritative. Poulson was a paid ’security consultant’ to the US military: the logic of Andy’s position is that we should also accept the opinions of Pentagon ‘military experts’ regarding the future of Iraq and Afghanistan - because they’re the experts when it comes to questions of military hardware, strategy and tactics, yes? It makes just as much sense.
I can see it now: Kareem and Andy fighting off the mob trying to storm the Bastille, laying down their lives in defence of ‘the majesty of the law’.
This just in: “Admittedly, only fools and innocents would have remained blind to the real power of the bourgeois state. The great distinction between revolutionary Marxists and pseudo-Marxist opportunists consists in the fact that… the latter regard the state as an institution standing above the classes and the proletariat and the bourgeoisie conduct their war in order to gain control of it.”
G**rg* L*k*cs, Legality and Illegality, 1920
Comment by Karen Elliot — 13 August, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
Lovely jubbly K.E. - except in one (admittedly minor) respect: I suspect Kareem to be more of a sub-hollywood rewrite-Sancho Panza-type figure to Newman’s IT-perfect Quixote charging at windmills of ‘antisocial’ criminality , hoping to save us all…
….or are they R2wossname and the charles hawtrey-esque robot of star wars fame?
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
I thought Andy told us he was going on holiday??
So who’s the dickhead posting up this shite???
Has this site been taken over by the US Stae Department?
Comment by Communist — 13 August, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
You’re a CIA-supporting ultra-right nutter - fuck off.
Comment by Fuck off Kareem — 13 August, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
..all naff comedy double act suggestions welcome - treat this thread with the abuse it so clearly deserves.
‘this just in’!!! Can’t top that at all………..
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 5:01 pm
Who has posted up this piece of shite article?
Who is running this site?
Comment by Communist — 13 August, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
#22 Surely, ‘who is running this shite?’
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 5:29 pm
Andy,
looks like you’ve finally brought ‘unity’ to the blog: at least in the comments box.*
*Kareem excepted.
Comment by Darren — 13 August, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
# 20
“You’re a CIA-supporting ultra-right nutter - fuck off.”
And you are most likely ‘Communist’ the conspiracy nut posting this crap with 2 minutes of your last piece of crap.
Fuck off yourself you ignorant cowardly nutter.
As for:
“Who has posted up this piece of shite article?
Who is running this site?”
Again, if you don’t like it then, to use your own parlance, fuck off somewhere else - like a good conspiracy site such as David Ickes where you can get your teeth into UFO’s, 9/11 inside theories and maybe try on some reptilians for size.
Comment by kareem — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
Of course it has to be c3pisspoorio and r2dettol.
Star Wars was a George Lukacs production!
Comment by seabiscuit — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
You’re a cunt who’s trying to fuck up this site - piss off you aresehole
Comment by Fuck off Kareem — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:17 pm
#26
perhaps, on behalf of Respect, it is time for Andy & Kareem to set up a security commission to look into the threat that hackers pose to the left?
Comment by Karen Elliot — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
This article is the biggest pile of shite since the pile of shite Andy wrote before he went on “holiday.”
Comment by No platform CIA-supporting arseholes — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
Good point Karen, it’s obvious some right-wing neo-cons have hacked into this site and posted up this rubbish - it couldn’t possibly be Andy because he’s on holiday isn’t he?
And of course Andy couldn’t possibly be posting this shit under an assumed name, because we all know how strongly he feels about people making mischief on the internet.
Comment by Gary McKinnon is innocent — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
Give McKinnon a medal. Anyone who makes fools out of the US military deserves the warmest praise. We should be doing everything we can to campaign for his immediate release, as should everyone with an ounce of principle. Well done McKinnon, good for you!
Comment by Gary McKinnon is our mate he hacks the CIA — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
So the main article is written by someone called Kevin Poulson, but whose words are these in the intro par/standfirst?
“Kevin Poulson is a former hacker, and he wrote this excellent summry of the case in the Threat Level column on the “Wired” web-site a couple of weeks ago.”
I see the article’s filed under “admin” rather than under anyone’s name.
Now, under the “who we are” section, the following people are named as contributors:
Andy Newman
Louise Whittle
Derek Wall
Phil BC
Tawfiq Chahbourne
Pete Brown
John Nicholson
Martin Wicks
Now Andy told us the other day that he was going on holiday, so was the standfirst written by Louise, Derek, Phil, Tawfiq, Pete, John, or Martin?
Comment by Communist — 13 August, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
#32
So what’s this, ‘communist’? A modern version of HUAC.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of admin?
I tell you what - why don’t you reveal your name and then I’m sure whoever posted this article will be happy to step forward.
Fair, no?
Comment by John Wight — 13 August, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
Kevin Poulson is apparently a “former hacker” so I was expecting some sort of technical knowledge that might throw some light on the subject. But we had nothing of the kind. Just - as other commentators have described - stuff that is vengeful, spiteful, sadistic and disgusting.
I cannot see how supporting the US military in there vengeance is in any way ‘Socialist’. In fact many ‘liberals’ have a more enlightened view on this subject. Should not the thinking of the military be in the public domain? It their secrecy that makes it easier for the establishment to oppress us all.
From what I’ve read McKinnon was not that much of a hacker in any case. He was able to gain access to the systems because their security was so poor. They only used the most basic of passwords which were easily cracked.
The real problem is that McKinnon only wanted nonsense about UFO’s and not something more interesting.
Comment by timothyMN — 13 August, 2009 @ 8:34 pm
I don’t believe in ghosts but this Bernsteinian revisionism in the daft belief that the state is neutral and must be protected against allcomers, really is almost like a ghost written piece.
Has Andy and this site been taken over ?
Comment by Halshall — 13 August, 2009 @ 8:35 pm
Comrades, A modest proposal: it’s time to stamp out the shameful scourge of chauvanist ‘little Englander’ racism by re-introducing the death penalty into UK law.
As well as dealing summarily with anti-social and criminal elements (especially autistic hackers) this long overdue reform will ensure parity with judicial practice in the US, depriving our revanchist enemies of their last claims to moral hegemony and cultural superiority.
With the socialist labour government under threat like never before now is the time for brutal honesty. Not having the death sentence is now tantamount to racist abuse of Americans.
Support socialism. Support Dick Cheney.
Comment by J B Malone — 13 August, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
Not me, though the spelling of my surname is incorrect.
I very much agree with the extemely unfashionable and so-called “contrarian” view that McKinnon is not innocent and hackers should be prosecuted.
I previously wrote that McKinnon seems to be a harmless UFO nutjob and should be treated with kidgloves. The more I learn about this case, the less I think McKinnon should be treated leniently. The man’s a damned menace and this whole hacking “culture” is nothing but the most extreme antisocial hehaviour. These techno-nihilists need to face the consequences of their actions. And we should stop making excuses for their outrageous “hobby”. I might be old fashioned but I associate the word “hobby” with crosswords, chess, playing a sport, going fishing, chasing foxes, etc, not accidentally bringing down a military database, whose effects would have been heaven knows what.
Perhaps prison will not be necessary and a box set of X Files and a pack of Kleenex will suffice for these sad individuals. If it’ll stop their behaviour, the taxpayer might be convinced to throw in a heavy metal t-shirt of their choice and a crate of Dr Pepper. Meanwhile many on the Left will continue to defend this indefensible criminality.
Comment by Tawfiq Chahboune — 13 August, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
Halsall, I thought ‘Bernsteinian revisionsim’ was playing ‘West Side Story’ with a geordie actors…?
Comment by J B Malone — 13 August, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
# 27
“You’re a cunt who’s trying to fuck up this site - piss off you aresehole”
The kind of level of ignorant stupidity you are now renowned for ‘communist’; you are the one outraged over what the people that own and run this site post so why don’t you stop acting like a “cunt” and “fuck off” you “aresehole”?
And just how many cowardly sock puppets do you need to use to vent your impotent rage?
Fuck off Kareem
No platform CIA-supporting arseholes
Gary McKinnon is innocent
Gary McKinnon is our mate he hacks the CIA
You are the very definition of a troll.
Comment by kareem — 13 August, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
A little poem for Andy….Joe Hill style.
To keep the bosses laws
And fight the bosses wars
That’s just what they taught me back at school
So do what rich folk say
It’s called democracy
The freedom to work harder for us all
So rally round the flag
Don’t let your conscience gag
When politicians choke you with their swill
Just switch on your PC
Andy’ll make you free
To do each little thing our leaders tell
OK. That’s enough already.
Comment by J B Malone — 13 August, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
No JohnW it’s nothing whatsoever to do with a “HUAC” approach to the issue and you’re missing the point completely.
The “who we are” section of this site presents our contributors as an “editorial team” with collective responsibility for this site’s content.
Now of course there is not - thankfully - a strict “democratic centralist” approach here. Most articles are clearly posted up, if not written by, a named individual and this approach works well.
For example, articles clearly focussing on the Green Party, Respect or the Socialist Party are invariably posted up by Derek, Andy or Phil respectively.
It’s clear, therefore, that although such articles are well within the broad left scope of this site, they do not signify full editorial approval for these viewpoints
But when articles are posted up here under “admin” it is not unfair to assume that they are collectively approved. Usually this is not a problem, because such articles are normally of the uncontroversial “broad left” type or ones of a general nature in support of workers’ struggles or progressive movements with which no sensible person on the left would disagree.
However, this bizarre position being taken here - unconditional support for the rabid neo-con US right and its hounding of this poor man with learning difficulties - clearly is not within that scope by any criteria.
Therefore, serious questions need to be asked - and answered - as to the governance of this site.
I’m surprised that such a principled anti-imperialist such as yourself is so relaxed over this strange affair.
Comment by Communist — 14 August, 2009 @ 7:37 am
“is so relaxed over this strange affair”
What? The support of the rule of law?
In all reality, whenever any crime is committed do you think there should be some sort of panel that assess whether it could be politically acceptable and therefore exempt from law?
Comment by kareem — 14 August, 2009 @ 3:58 pm
Andy, you’re basically a top guy, and I don’t agree with those who say you’re on some right-wing trajectory.
You’re a decent left-wing socialist with an admirable track record of supporting workers in struggle, opposing racism and backing progressive movements around the world.
This site is a huge asset to the socialist and working-class cause and all credit to you for that.
But, every now and then you go a bit bonkers - like you have over this nonsense.
Hopefully, the real Andy will be back soon and normal service will be resumed.
Comment by Communist — 14 August, 2009 @ 4:16 pm
Who is this blogger, Kareem, who is hounding Gary Mckinnon and defending the US & UK legal systems? I only ask because he seems very obsessive about defending his position on a website that, to my knowledge, he has never appeared before. Its not as if he has any stake in this. Its not as if its like Lindsey or UAF where we have individual bloggers active in these events, and it understandable why people would argue for days over an issue. But why Kareem? Whats his beef?
Comment by duncanB — 14 August, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
kareem: help the police…. beat yourself up
Comment by Karen Elliot — 14 August, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
Kareem and the Great Newman are the only ones to realise that when it comes to a choice between states maintaining a basic Decency and stoned UFOlogists,only the crazy and the wicked would back the latter. As I’m sure Pastor Niemoller would say today: “When they come for the hackers,I’ll cheer on the police and congratulate them on the fine job they do.”
Karen Elliot should really be put in a federal prison for a long time for offering aid and comfort to one of the world’s most dangerous villains,as well as insulting an important ally of this country.
Comment by tyresome points — 14 August, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
# 44
“Who is this blogger, Kareem, who is hounding Gary Mckinnon…”
Do you think Gary Mckinnon is aware that I am “hounding him?!”
“my knowledge, he has never appeared before”
I’m sorry, was you failed to be informed of any of my previous activity?
“Its not as if he has any stake in this”
Actually I do seeing as it affects the profession I work, which you would have known if you had previous comment I have made on this blog, if only someone had let you know about it.
“and defending the US & UK legal systems?”
I know. Sorry. Disgraceful behaviour, defending the rule of law.
# 45
“kareem: help the police…. beat yourself up”
Why am I surprised that violent torture is your solution to people who disagree with you?
# 46
“Kareem and the Great Newman are the only ones to realise that when it comes to a choice between states maintaining a basic Decency and stoned UFOlogists…”
Not even a remotely coherent attempt at sarcasm.
Comment by kareem — 14 August, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
It seem s generally accepted that the two articles recently posted on this topic have been crap. The first one was real crap. The second one was pretty crap.
Comment by inf4mation — 14 August, 2009 @ 8:11 pm
Kareem is surely a character, perhaps invented by Sacha Baron Cohen. I can’t imagine any real person calling themself a socialist to be so crazily in love with the US legal system and the imprisonment of some dude who broke into the US MILITARY computers. As for the “rule of law” - it is an absurd abstraction, as though the “law” has dropped from the sky like the Ten Commandments and wasn’t written by men - primarily rich, white men of a Christian persuasion. But, if what “kareem” means is that everyone should be treated the same, then surely he would be much more upset about the world’s biggest hackers and system disrupters - like Russia, who used cyberwarfare against Georgia:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2539157/Georgia-Russia-conducting-cyber-war.html
Or the US, which is in the process of creating a “cyberczar”, as this article from the end of May in the New York Times makes clear:
“The Pentagon plans to create a new military command for cyberspace, administration officials said Thursday, stepping up preparations by the armed forces to conduct both offensive and defensive computer warfare… The decision to create a cybercommand is a major step beyond the actions taken by the Bush administration, which authorized several computer-based attacks but never resolved the question of how the government would prepare for a new era of warfare fought over digital networks.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/us/politics/29cyber.html?_r=1
Or this article, which noted:
“When American forces in Iraq wanted to lure members of Al Qaeda into a trap, they hacked into one of the group’s computers and altered information that drove them into American gun sights.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/us/28cyber.html
Or this article about the invasion of Serbia and plans to use cyberwarfare:
“As computers revolutionize many aspects of life, military officials have stepped up development of cyber weapons, suggesting soldiers at computer terminals could invade foreign networks to shut down electrical facilities, interrupt telephone service, crash trains and disrupt financial systems.”
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/021.html
of course, it’s not just the US and Russia - it’s also China, which is in the arena of cyber-warfare, challenging the US’ ability to hack their computers and testing out their own offensive weapons:
“China has developed more secure operating software for its tens of millions of computers and is already installing it on government and military systems, hoping to make Beijing’s networks impenetrable to U.S. military and intelligence agencies.
“The secure operating system, known as Kylin, was disclosed to Congress during recent hearings that provided new details on how China’s government is preparing to wage cyberwarfare with the United States.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/12/china-bolsters-for-cyber-arms-race-with-us/print/
Of course, none of this is really important in any discussion of computer hacking. We shouldn’t worry about the utter hypocrisy of the US prosecuting this one guy, or about imperialism or any of the bigger questions. Instead, what should exercise us should be “law and order”. We need more cops, more arrests, more anti-social criminals in prison!
Or maybe we could be socialist about it and suggest that the real hackers who ought to be imprisoned are the US military, including Kevin Poulson, who works for them as a “security expert.”
Comment by redbedhead — 14 August, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
“Kareem is surely a character, perhaps invented by Sacha Baron Cohen.”
Don’t feed the troll.
Comment by Ray — 14 August, 2009 @ 10:35 pm
Sadly, Andy’s gone slightly bonkers over this issue and he’s posting here as “Kareem.”
Perhaps his editorial team colleagues could speak to him about this?
Comment by Communist — 15 August, 2009 @ 6:19 am
# 51
“Sadly, Andy’s gone slightly bonkers over this issue and he’s posting here as “Kareem.”
Perhaps his editorial team colleagues could speak to him about this?”
Bullshit from “Communist the conspiracy theorist”
You are the one using sock puppets here, with these so far:
Fuck off Kareem
No platform CIA-supporting arseholes
Gary McKinnon is innocent
Gary McKinnon is our mate he hacks the CIA
Comment by kareem — 15 August, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
Why do we all hate each other again?
Comment by Anthony James — 16 August, 2009 @ 2:35 am
“Why do we all hate each other again?”
Andy and Kareem have managed to single handedly unite the left on SU. Now that’s a feat not even Marx could have anticipated…
Comment by Ray — 16 August, 2009 @ 3:31 am
Touché!
Comment by Anthony James — 16 August, 2009 @ 11:45 am
“Andy and Kareem have managed to single handedly unite the left on SU. Now that’s a feat not even Marx could have anticipated…”
Not even remotely Racist Ray, just a few fuckwits like you and their assorted sock puppets.
No drama.
Comment by kareem — 16 August, 2009 @ 7:12 pm
Racist? I believe Ray was celebrating the agreement across the socialist unity left about this case. I don’t understand the racism claim. What are you so angry about Kareem?
Comment by Anthony James — 16 August, 2009 @ 8:03 pm
Kareem believes it’s racist and even fascist to criticise the US military and government.
Comment by Ray — 16 August, 2009 @ 8:11 pm
# 54
“Kareem believes it’s racist and even fascist to criticise the US military and government.”
But its not just the US military and government you subject to your xenophobic hate though is it Racist Ray? You hate the entire country and everything and everyone in it. You have made that clear.
What other countries you do hate Ray? Does your hae it end at entire countries? Or are there entire races and religions that you hate too?
Comment by kareem — 17 August, 2009 @ 3:47 am
(59) Andy, accusing Ray of racism is just an outright lie.
On other threads, Ray has accused critics of UAF of unwittingly helping the BNP and I think this is where your anti-Ray attitude comes from.
While Ray’s method in the UAF debates is certainly unprincipled and downright wrong, he has never, to my knowledge, made any racist remarks or contributions.
And his postings on this issue have been consistently right, as opposed to the utter nonsense you’ve been spouting.
Comment by Communist — 17 August, 2009 @ 5:28 am
kareem
“‘kareem: help the police…. beat yourself up’
Why am I surprised that violent torture is your solution to people who disagree with you?”
I think you are confusing ‘violent torture’ with ‘mild sarcasm’.
Incidentally, as for your repeated hints that you are something of an expert in this domain, I suggest that you are in fact a bullshitter with no real experience or knowledge of hacking or hacking culture.
Comment by Karen Elliot — 17 August, 2009 @ 10:38 am
# 60
“59) Andy, accusing Ray of racism is just an outright lie.”
Not Andy, Karrem; can you even read?
And Ray has made his xenophobia clear for all to see.
# 61
“I think you are confusing ‘violent torture’ with ‘mild sarcasm’.”
I see, so it was bullshit. You made it up. You lied. You don’t really want to see physically assaulted because I disagree with you.
“Incidentally, as for your repeated hints that you are something of an expert in this domain, I suggest that you are in fact a bullshitter with no real experience or knowledge of hacking or hacking culture.”
And given the fact that you are a self confessed bullshiter as proved above, I think it safe for any one to see that this is in fact just more of YOUR bullshit based upon nothing other then YOUR bullshit as you don’t know me from bar of soap.
And by the way, I haven’t hinted at all, I have clearly sated that I am an IT security professional and have been called as an expert witness in that capacity many times.
Do try to keep up.
Comment by kareem — 17 August, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
Andy, from you at (62)
“Not Andy, Karrem; can you even read?”
At least spell the made-up name consistently!! Now is it “Kareem” or “Karrem”?
Comment by Get a grip Andy! — 17 August, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
1) They both talk a lot about “sock puppets” and “attack muppets.”
2) “Kareem” - or “Karrem” as he sometimes prefers to be known - seems to know for certain the identity of various anonymous posters.
3) They both support the US military against this poor man McKinnon - as opposed to everyone else in this debate.
4) I’ve never before known anyone to spell their own name wrongly.
Comment by Is Andy Kareem? — 17 August, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
Ah ha! Got you there you sock-wielding glove puppet muppet!
Andy’s never ever spelt his own name wrong you trolling bar of soap!!
And that McKinnon - send him to prison for 80 years, he sank the US navy, well if he didn’t he might have done mightn’t he and anyway someone one day might do it.
Good on you Karrrme, you’re the only one telling the truth here and Adny.
Comment by No he's not — 17 August, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
“I see, so it was bullshit”
no, it’s an old punk joke: “Help the Police - Beat Yourself Up!”
it’s intended to express the belief that the law is not on your side, is prejudiced, etc.
it was not an instruction to you.
“I have clearly sated that I am an IT security professional ”
I saw that. My point is that, despite this, you *understand* nothing about the subject. Indeed, it looks to me rather as though you are the sort of neanderthal ‘expert witness’ that prosecutors would be particularly fond of. You sound like a rat to me. I do hope you get paid well for your services. I too work in IT, often alongside ‘hackers’, that’s how I know that you are full of shit.
Comment by Karen Elliot — 17 August, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
# 62, 63 & 64
“Communist”, clearly these are just more of your sock puppets and clearly I made a typo (I manged to spell my name correctly at the bottom funnily enough) you sad little troll.
# 66
“it’s intended to express the belief that the law is not on your side, is prejudiced, etc.
it was not an instruction to you.”
So you say; I think it is clear the malice that was intended.
“I saw that”
Really? Then why say “hinted” then?
“you *understand* nothing about the subject”
Actually, I educated another idiot like you here who a couple of posts back who claimed to have worked in IT for years but didn’t know how easy it was to corrupt the boot process, so I gave a little technical demonstration on how to do it in around 5 clicks! Never saw him again, funnily enough, not under his first name anyway.
“Indeed, it looks to me rather as though you are the sort of neanderthal ‘expert witness’ that prosecutors would be particularly fond of.”
Thanks for conceding that you know I am in fact, in the profession I say I am and that I am indeed called as an expert witness.
“You sound like a rat to me”
Oh dear; disagree with Karen and she wants you beaten to a pulp and compared to a rodent. Not single are you, by any chance?
“I do hope you get paid well for your services”
I do, thank you.
“I too work in IT, often alongside ‘hackers’, that’s how I know that you are full of shit.”
Again you base you contention on me on nothing other then your own ignorant prejudice, not on any actual evidence whereas your contention of working “alongside hackers” is certainly bullshit because no professional, that is, CEH, GPEN or CREST accredited pen tester would ever describe themselves with that term.
You are a lying troll.
Comment by kareem — 17 August, 2009 @ 7:02 pm
So “Karen” you must be a glove-puppet muppet attacker too!
Comment by Karmee's mate — 17 August, 2009 @ 7:05 pm