UNISON MAKES ITSELF LAUGHING STOCK WITH WITCH-HUNT OF ACTIVISTS
Outrageous “racism” charge leads to union ban.
Four members of the public sector union Unison were last week banned from holding positions in their union following two years of investigations and hearings. A leaflet distributed at the 2007 Unison conference criticising the ruling out of resolutions relating to pay and accountability of full-time union officials and financing the Labour Party was found to have given “racist offence to members” for using a cartoon of the Three Wise Monkeys.
Based on this outrageous trumped up charge, the four have been found guilty and sentenced to a ban from office for three years for Glenn Kelly (NEC member and Bromley branch secretary) & Onay Kasab (Greenwich branch secretary), four years for Suzanne Muna (Housing Corporation branch secretary) and five years for Brian Debus (Hackney branch chair)!
To find four members, who have always opposed, fought and campaigned against racism, of effectively being racist themselves is not only outrageous but a terrible accusation for these four unison members to have to bear. Such a slur is bound to cause difficulties in the future, especially when working and applying for jobs in the public sector.
This has provoked anger and outrage both within Unison and in the wider trade union movement. The priority of every union should be to defend its members from job losses, reduced hours and worse conditions which are being foisted on workers during this recession. However the Unison bureaucracy is instead narrowly focused on silencing any opposition to the Unison leadership, especially socialists with a track record of fighting for their members.
Unison activists and supporters of the four are organising a mass protest outside of Unison head office on Thursday 30th July to make their anger known and warn the leadership of the union that they will not quietly accept this unjust result.
Protest outside Unison HQ, 1 Mabledon Place, London WC1H 9AJ on Thursday 30th July at 12noon.
Supporters of the four victimised trade unionists include the comedians Rory Bremner and Mark Thomas who had the following to say about the case:
Rory Bremner: “On the face of it, Unison are about to make themselves look a laughing stock. They need to be very aware of the widespread ridicule this will attract to their union and its leaders, and think again before the papers get hold of this and make them look foolish and authoritarian. They don’t need this distraction”
Mark Thomas: “I know Onay Kasab – Kas. I have had the privilege of working with him on the Ilisu Dam Campaign and on the issue of trade unionist deaths in Columbia. To accuse him of being racist is utter stupidity and madness… those who brought this charge need to take a lie down in a quiet room, possibly with whale music playing and get a rest or they need to acknowledge their actions are motivated by other factors.”
Further information and background material can be found at www.stopthewitchhunt.org.uk .
Hee hee hee - quality.
Comment by Richard — 27 July, 2009 @ 3:14 pm
Contrast this with the Unison witchunt of activist Yunus Bakhsh, a witchunt started by a racist Unison member with proven links to the BNP! Whate a sick joke!
Unison = corrupt as any new Labour / Tory MP!
The whole world seems upside down!
And now the Police ban the Big Green Gathering while allowing the BNP’s hatefest to go ahead!
Twisted racist capitalist scumbags are still running the world - obviously.
Comment by Barry Kade — 27 July, 2009 @ 3:40 pm
Unf******believeable!
Comment by D_D — 27 July, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
As a practitioner of wiccan, a recognized religion, I want to see all involved in this campaign to be banned from holding union office for misusing our religion.
Terms like “witch hunt” are deeply offensive to us. You would not use the term Muslim Hunt, Jew Hunt or Christian Hunt.
Please desist from Witch Hunt.
Comment by Elfinda Dragonsbane — 27 July, 2009 @ 3:55 pm
SEND YOUR PROTESTS TO:
UNISON HQ
1 Mabledon Place
London WC1H 9AJ
Telephone: 0845 355 0845
e-mail: d.prentis@unison.co.uk
Please Send copies of protest statements to:
Defend the Four Campaign, PO Box 858 London E11 1YG
or email info@stopthewitchhunt.org.uk
Donations to the campaign are also needed.
Please make cheques payable to: ‘Stop the Witch-hunt’ and post to: Defend the Four Campaign, PO Box 858, London, E11 1YG
Comment by Clive — 27 July, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
comment 4: Oh please shut up!
16th century witch hunts were moral panics whipped up to exterminate anyone who was different - single women, queers, old wise herbalists…
It is therefore quite appropriate for us to use the term in our epoch to describe the victimisation of todays dissident minorities. We will not be robbed of this powerful word. You have no monopoly on it.
Your stupid comment makes all pagans look as stupid as you.
I celebrate the solstices, the festivals of mayday / beltane and samhain. I celebrate the earth . Mostly I celebrate the resistance of the oppressed and exploited. And above all, I do it for a laugh.
But I despise these backward and stroppy ‘professional pagans’ who want to formalise things into a new religion, with priests and the whole panoply of rules and superstitions. The whole point is to keep it free and eclectic.
Perhaps these ridiculous nerds who strive for ‘authenticity’ like poster 4 are just the descendants of the victorian gentlemen who invented modern paganism as a romantic hobby.
Now back to the main point - defend democracy and grassroots activists within the unions!
Comment by Barry Kade — 27 July, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
Clive - can we send our congratulations to them too?
Comment by Richard — 27 July, 2009 @ 5:28 pm
Richard - why would you want to congratulate Unison for this?
Comment by Proper Tidy — 27 July, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
For what good it will do I have written to Cde Prentis to protest. This is a shocking, opportunistic and thoroughly unprincipled attack on people who fight for working people. Shame on you Prentice.
Comment by Henry — 27 July, 2009 @ 10:52 pm
This is so obviously a disgrace it’s hardly worth making any further comment, but one thing inevitably lost in the coverage of this case is these activists’ contributions to their local media. As a former local news reporter whose patch was Bromley, Glenn was a key contact as the local council Unison branch secretary. As you’d expect from a dedicated socialist, he worked tirelessly to protect and promote the rights and interests of council workers and service users. My former colleagues who covered Greenwich wold say the same about Onay Kasab.
Between them they ensured Unison’s concerns and campaigns were always kept in the public eye, and many an issue has been righted or at least brought to wider attention through their determination to ensure council taxpayers were told the truth about conditions and services.
I have no doubt in saying that their efforts significantly contributed to raising the public perception of workers at those two councils over the years. The public are also now more informed about the consequences of outsourcing and cost-cutting as a result of their work. And, again as you’d expect from socialists, they always acted with integrity in their dealings with us as journalists.
The Unison leadership must know how well served workers, service users and the wider public have been by these long-standing activists - which makes this ruling even more disgraceful.
Comment by Rich S — 27 July, 2009 @ 11:25 pm
I will always buy American over foreign products, but there are some things you need to know about unions.
http://animal-farm.us/change/communism-and-the-union-label-548
Comment by Foxwood — 27 July, 2009 @ 11:54 pm
there is something awful about yuppie nazi scum like foxwood putting their repulsive sentiments up on a socialist blog. I suppose there is nothing that can be done about it. But can’t we restrict his freedom in some way?
Comment by johng — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:19 am
So, in future, we don’t invite the snivelling Prentis on to our platforms, and we ask Glenn Kelly et al instead. The UNISON bureaucracy can be absolutely foul - I got in trouble with them about 18 months ago for upsetting scabs at my workplace while I was on the picket line - nothing was said to the scabs (they were UNISON members) at all.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 28 July, 2009 @ 6:55 am
It’s transparently obvious these activists are being victimised for their socialist politics and these individuals are clearly not racists but active anti-racists.
However, the use of the “three wise monkeys” cartoon, in a leaflet mainly aimed at criticising Unison’s black chairman of standing orders Mr Mackenzie for ruling out certain conference resolutions was extremely ill-advised to say the least.
It risked offending both Mr Mackenzie and other black Unison members, diverted attention away from the substantive issue that the group were raising and left those behind it open to this charge.
Perhaps some recognition of this misjudgement by the group might have meant that the matter could have been resolved better for all concerned.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 7:42 am
#14 “However, the use of the “three wise monkeys” cartoon, in a leaflet mainly aimed at criticising Unison’s black chairman of standing orders Mr Mackenzie for ruling out certain conference resolutions was extremely ill-advised to say the least.”
But the leaflet wasn’t mainly aimed at the “black chairman” as you have put it - it was aimed at the UNISON bureaucracy as a whole because they are continually stitching up the annual conference. If you read the stop the witch hunt website then you will see that this “three wise monkeys” cartoon has been used elsewhere by UNISON members without them being punished for doing so.
This is a clear political witch hunt against Socialist Party members who have been advocating a breaking of the link between UNISON and the Labour Party. The comrades are completely blameless.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:27 am
Communist has a point, IF there has been genuine offence. But the whole affair just demonstrates how ‘political correctness’ can manifest itself in reactionary and damaging ways. Council bosses love it and the BNP will be pissing themselves.
Comment by Armchair — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:35 am
But this isn’t “political correctness” - this isn’t liberal handwringing gone wrong. It’s an excuse to have a go, that’s all - if not this, then they’d have found something else.
Comment by external bulletin — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:37 am
But they didn’t choose something else, they chose this.
Comment by Armchair — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:44 am
It was a stupid leaflet, which gave the right in Unison the perfect pretext to attack the left, particularly in light of the fact that the initial complaint was made to full conference by a delegate from the Unison black members forum, who made it clear that she interpreted the cartoon as a direct personal attack on Mr Mackenzie.
Of course the individuals behind the leaflet have a solid record of fighting for their members and of anti-racism, but it’s disturbing that, even now, their supporters can’t accept that the use of the cartoon was, at the very least, regrettable.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:49 am
#17 Exactly. Remember - originally 5 members were charged with this “offence” - then one, who was not a member of the Socialist Party, had the charges dropped. This is a political witch hunt, nothing else.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:52 am
The leaflet was miscalculated, but it is obviously a Witch hunt.
Comment by Green Socialist — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:57 am
The leaflet was only misjudged in the sense that it gave political ammunition to the witch-hunters in Unison.
Use of the three monkeys imagary is manifestly NOT racist, although I am sure that it is possible the officials concerned in UNISON have worked themselves into a self-righteous state where they now genuinely beleive it IS racist,
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:10 am
The black members who were giving the leaflet out at the conference didnt think it was racist either.
This is a disgracful stitch up which is part of a wider campaign to silence the left in UNISON. In the Yorkshire region another NEC member is under “investigation” and an ex NEC member John McDermott, who actually won the vote in this years election but was “withdrawn” when the result was announced, is also facing “investigation”.
The right wing in UNISON have failed miserably to defend our members and due to the weakness of their ideas are resorting to stalinist tactics in order to keep hold of power. In doing so they are making UNISON a laughing stock within the movement.
Comment by wildboar — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:34 am
It is absurd to suggest that if members had been more ‘reasonable’ they wouldn’t have been witch-hunted. Anyone familiar with the viciousness of UNISON bureacracy towards the left would never use the word ‘reasonable’ in any case. They might have persuaded themselves of their absurd case as Andy argues. More likely though is that they have persuaded themselves that fitting up and expelling socialists is an end in itself.
Comment by johng — 28 July, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
Yes JohnG, it’s a witchunt against the left - no argument there. And yes it should be fought against.
But the leaflet has a cartoon image of three monkeys at the top and a caption saying:”The Standing Orders Committee”
The only public face of that committee to delegates is its black chairman.
So the question is one of whether racist comparisons of black people to monkeys are more widely known about than some obscure ancient proverb.
To me, it’s possible to see how some could get the message “the standing orders committee are monkeys.”
Yes of course we must defend socialists witchunted by the right, but those behind that leaflet need to recognise that they produced something which was at best questionable.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
#24
“More likely though is that they have persuaded themselves that fitting up and expelling socialists is an end in itself.”
This is a bizarre aspect of UNISON at the moment, on the whole they are utterly supine and sumissive to management and the government, but ferocious in trying to drive activists out of their own union.
Particularly self-defeating as the activists they witchhunt are usually then welcomed by GMB or UNITE
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
@25 The three wise monkeys is an “obscure ancient proverb” is it? Obscure? So almost no one reading this thread is likely to have ever heard of it then? If you were to say to a crowded room, ‘hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil’, then almost nobody there would have a clue what you were talking about? Get a grip.
Comment by Rich — 28 July, 2009 @ 12:44 pm
Communist:
Perhaps you could share your thoughts with us on the role of CPB activists in prosecuting this witchhunt rather than treating us to yur weaselish commentary on the “misjudged” nature of the leaflet?
Comment by Irish Mark P — 28 July, 2009 @ 12:47 pm
Communist- are the other members of the SOC black? (I actually dont know the answer), but if not the whole thing from the point of view of the leadership is utterly dishonest.
In answer to Andy re UNISON being supine to management- isn’t part of the problem that the nature of UNISON is that quite a lot of its members and activists ARE mangement- that always used to be my impression of NALGO when a fair few of my comrades back in my pre-armchair days worked for the locel City Council.
On the other hand, one worry I have about all this is that my experience of the grouping to whch the victimised belong (including from being a supporter in the early 80s) is that they were not exactly known for constructive self-criticism or humility in the face of people’s sensibilities. I hope therefore that, without giving one inch in relation to the nature of the attack upon them, that they are prepared to recognise and regret if anyone has genuinely been offended.
I recall that Derek Hatton stated that his only regret about his period as Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council was the way the Councildealt with the Equal ops issue. I don’t know if any of his ex-comrads agreed with him, but I found that refreshing.
Btw I have nothing but admiration for the SP over their role in the oil refinery dispute and the recent dispute in Swansea.
Comment by Armchair — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
#28
Irish mark P
I don’t know who “communist” is, but their politics don’t seem similar to the CPB’s to me.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
#29
“isn’t part of the problem that the nature of UNISON is that quite a lot of its members and activists ARE mangement”
indeed.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:17 pm
…although i’m not sure that UNISON branches are run by managers. In fact there was a long tradition of the left being strong at the base of the union. Its this that over the last period the UNISON leadership have been responding to. It isn’t as if its pressure from the managers in UNISON that have led to these witch-hunts. I get the impression of a bureacracy threatened by the left, and when things turned nasty with managers launching offensives against the members, using this as an opportunity to try and break the left.
Comment by johng — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
Irish Mark P,
Each comment I’ve made on this has included a condemnation of the right-wing witchunt of the left in Unison.
If you have a serious accusation to make alleging CPB involvement in this then please make a formal complaint to the party. Please do.
Rich, please don’t assume that everyone is aware of the “three wise monkeys” proverb - which, in any case, was not used in its original context in this leaflet.
My point was not that no-one is aware of the proverb, but that it may not be universally known and that it may be less well known than the racist comparison of black people to monkeys.
Armchair, Mackenzie, the chairman of the SOC and the person who delivers all of its reports to conference is a black man and, as such, he is the public face of the SOC to delegates.
Once again, of course there is a right-wing witchunt of the left that must be opposed, but those who produced this leaflet need to recognise their lack of judgement.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Perhaps those of you who see no possible offence in this leaflet think this is another one of those “political correctness gone mad” stories?
Maybe you think black people are “over-sensitive” and have “chips on their shoulders”?
Perhaps black people need to “learn to lauch at themselves”?
Or maybe, just maybe, a black man became upset because he thought he was being compared to a monkey?
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:52 pm
communist, no you’re right, it wasn’t used in its original context because (according to wiki) its original context was “a 17th century carving over a door of the famous Tōshō-gū shrine in Nikkō, Japan. The maxim, however, probably originally came to Japan with a Tendai-Buddhist legend, from China in the 8th century (Nara Period).”
Comment by Rich — 28 July, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
No smartarse, it’s original context is one in which the monkeys - and their “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” mantra - are portrayed as being wise, I.e. In a positive light.
The context of the leaflet portrays the monkeys as stupid, mindless and unthinkingly carrying out orders to stop and stifle debate.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
Wikipedia is not a cast-iron definitive source, but it is useful as a barometer of opinion on a given issue. And it has this to say about the proverbs meaning:
‘Just as there is disagreement about the origin of the phrase, there are differing explanations of the meaning of “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.”
- In Japan the proverb is simply regarded as a Japanese Golden Rule.
- Some simply take the proverb as a reminder not to be snoopy, nosy and gossipy.
- Early associations of the three monkeys with the fearsome six-armed deity Vajrakilaya link the proverb to the teaching of Buddhism that if we do not hear, see or talk evil, we ourselves shall be spared all evil (refer Three Vajra). This may be considered similar to the English proverb “Speak of the Devil – and the devil appears.”
- Others believe the message is that a person who is not exposed to evil (through sight or sound) will not reflect that evil in their own speech and actions.
- Today “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is commonly used to describe someone who doesn’t want to be involved in a situation, or someone willfully turning a blind eye to the immorality of an act in which they are involved.’
It’s the latter one that I grew up with, I have to say. Not its original context, but language and its usage changes.
Comment by Rich — 28 July, 2009 @ 2:30 pm
And when the England football team plays abroad in some countries, and selects black players, and the supporters make monkey chants when one of the black players is in possesion, what do you think they mean?
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 2:45 pm
communist, I’m not an idiot, don’t treat me like one. I know full well what racism is and how it’s made manifest. You made a point about the proverb’s meaning and context, I refuted it. That’s all. Comparing this to football chanting is at best a red a herring; at worst, it’s a disgraceful attempt to breed suspicion about the motives of these activists - one of whom, let’s not forget, is black.
Comment by Rich — 28 July, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
You refuted nothing Rich, you quoted wikipedia to the effect that the “three wise monkeys” proverb is open to different interpretations.
Yes it is, some positive and some negative.
The football reference is to remind you that racist comparisons of black people to monkeys remain widespread today, not to compare the producers of the leaflet to racist fans.
The producers of the leaflet are all hard-working union activists, socialists and anti-racists.
My point is not that the producers of the leaflet intended to racially abuse the SOC chairman - they were cleared of racist intent - but that the leaflet could be interpreted by the reader as giving that impression.
And their thoughless leaflet has given the Unison right the perfect pretext to attack them.
The attack on the left must be resisted, and this resistance will be strengthened if people honestly accept their errors.
Comment by communist — 28 July, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
OK
Comment by Rich — 28 July, 2009 @ 3:11 pm
Communist - the surname of the chair of the SOC is Williams not MacKenzie. The context is that over 1/3rd of branch motions to conference were ruled out of order by the SOC, a scandalous attack on democracy. The cartoon is a well established piece of satire that Unison has used a number of times against employers. 2 out of the 4 disciplined SP members are from an ethnic minority background.
#31 in my experience the management in local authorities if they are in a union is that it is the gmb they are members of not unison. Certainly over the last 10 years everyime members in my area have voted for industrial action over pay while the other 2 local govt. unions have accepted there has been a flood of managers rushing to join the gmb and using that as an excuse to scab.
Comment by Helen Thomson — 28 July, 2009 @ 3:38 pm
#42
Helen, that experience would not be typical. the majority of GMB members in local authorities are school support staff, parks and leisure workers, and bin workers. GMB typically represents the lower paid - and although GMB is a general union, the culture is not one conducive or particularly sympathetic to management grades.
However, NALGO traditionally represented management, and that culture has been brought over into UNISON in many areas.
I think this is not the issue though, UNISON have adopted a particularly supine and subservient attitude to the government due to their politics not the number of managers in the membership.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:04 pm
Without wanting to get too far off the point, despite GMB having a majority of its LA members in the lower-paid grades, it has also taken into amalgamated membership Apex and MPO. Both of these were white collar management grade unions.
The social breakdown of union membership varies massively from LA to LA in my experience.
Where the GMB nationally has decided to accept a pay offer, no doubt some scabs have joined GMB looking for an excuse. Equally in Thames Water and the Environment Agency recently, it has been GMB taking action and UNISON sitting quietly not rocking the boat.
Comment by pedant — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:12 pm
pedant
APEX was not really a management grade union.
I used to be in APEX when I was a building society clerk, and although it included the bizarre anachronism of representing full time officers in most other unions, (which gave conference a surreal flavour) many of the membership were low paid clerks, and of course APEX organised the AA, who can hardly be described as “managers”. And very, very few APEX members were in local authorities - I never met anyone who was.
I am sure you are correct that people wishing to avoid a strike have switched unions - this happens and has always happened - but it doesn’t alter tha fact that GMB is not a union with a lot of local authority managers; nor the fact that NALGO did traditionally include all management grades.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:25 pm
I was really referring to MPO I suppose but I take your point. In one large public sector employer near me the GMB is definitely the management union as a result.
It’s a very varied picture. Certainly in London there are many many local authorities in which GMB is seen as the moderate union, if not necessarily the management union.
But as I mentioned above that is far from universal.
Comment by pedant — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
Communist,
You are completely wrong about this. The title of this article has it completely correct: The bureaucrat scum in Unison have made themselves a laughing stock by claiming that a widely used (including by the union itself) image and proverb, unrelated in any way to issues of race, was in some way racist.
None of the victims of the witchhunt should give them the slightest comfort or concession by playing along with the laughable and indeed offensive notion that there was anything unwise, ill judged or unacceptable about the leaflet in question. Your faux-even handedness serves only to undermine the campaign for justice and to camouflage the nature of the witchhunt.
There is no reasonable person who could think that the leaflet was racist. There is a politically motivated witchhunt. Not an inch should be given on this.
By the way, the involvement of at least one senior CPB trade unionist in the witchhunt has already been the subject of discussion on this site and has already been the focus of an exchange of letters between the Socialist Party and the CPB.
Comment by Irish Mark P — 28 July, 2009 @ 4:54 pm
#47 I agree with you entirely.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 28 July, 2009 @ 5:01 pm
The fool posting on here called ‘communist’ is so wrong!!! Just stop digging mate - you look idiotic.
If i read this story about Unison in the Tory tabloids, I would have thought they were making it up to discredit anti-racism, like they did with the myth about ‘loony lefty’ councils ‘banning black bin liners’ as racist back in the 1980’s. Stories like this allow racists to rant on about ‘political correctness gone mad’. Using the accusation of ‘racism’ against anti-racists - to merely advance a bureaucratic factional political battle - is disgusting. It is an insult to all those who have suffered from racism, and sets back the anti-racist struggle. Shame on you.
Comment by Barry Kade — 28 July, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
Irish Mark P is absolutely right. The CPB in Unison are the force behind Prentis in large parts of the country. In my area the North West Region they are disgusting witch hunters. I’ll give you one example. They attempted to have a longstanding anti-racist SWP member sacked in Manchester on a trumped up charge. It was so outrageous that the council’s head of personnel threw it out.
Their behaviour does provide something of an antidote to the idea that this bunch of scabby sell outs can have anything to do with the “left”.
Comment by bill j — 28 July, 2009 @ 6:18 pm
#46
I think you are mixing up more than one point here.
Isn’t the MPO a semi-autonomus section within GMB? So its members wouldn’t be in the same branches as the lower grades, and probably not part of the same bargaining unit.
Also, the issue of which union is the more militant is one that goes up and down with time, and varies from area to area; and occassionally people switch union to avoid striking. But that is a seperate isue from the fact that there is obvioulsy a process going on as GMB still has a legacy of partnership to overcome, and there are FTOs and lay activists who have grown up in the partnership way of thinking. But overall the direction from the GMB@work strategy is more traditional trade unionism.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
In some workplaces MPO are separated out but I don’t think all.
By the way in London Region, Camden X19, Barking B11, Islington I36, Newham N26 and Tower Hamlets X83 ex-Apex branches are all dominated by the local authority membership.
Agree with all in your last paragraph.
Comment by pedant — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
#52
Pedant
i think this situation is unique to London, (and so might also perhaps affect some branches in Southern Region), because the Greater London Staff Association, who had joined GMBATU back in the Basnett era were incorporated into APEX after APEX merged with GMB in 1989.
The GLSA were more moderate than NALGO - and I beleive its growth was stimulated as a reaction to London NALGO being more left wing and militant than NALGO was nationally.
This might mean that in London especially there is a greater concentration of management grades in GMB than is the case in the other regions. Greater London Staff Association, by definition, only represented staff in London, and no equivelent tranche of middle management would have joined GMB in the other regions.
It is always necessary to exercise some caution about not generalising from London and assuming that that rather odd city is typical of the rest of the UK.
:o)
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
It is always necessary to exercise some caution about not generalising from London and assuming that that rather odd city is typical of the rest of the UK.
Nor from the excellent branch in Swindon, for that matter
Comment by pedant — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
touche
:o)
However, I think the tendency of Swindonians to assume that we are at the centre of things is less pronounced than it is with Londoners.
Comment by Andy Newman — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
Barry Kade-spot on. I remember hearing the late great Bernie Grant exposing the bullshit of Ba ba Green Sheep to great amusement all round. Barmy Bernie would be turning in his grave at all this.
Comment by Armchair — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:09 pm
#55 ‘However, I think the tendency of Swindonians to assume that we are at the centre of things is less pronounced than it is with Londoners.’
London is the capital city, Andy, it is the centre of things. That is factually accurate. One in five of the population of the country are employed in it or its immediate periphery. It is one of a handful of financial city superpowers in the world and the seat from which for hundreds of years huge territories of the world were controlled from.
Comment by Mikey — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:12 pm
Apologies fort the authoritative citation below. Only to put the lid on the misguided notion that the Three Monkies has any racist connotations Japanese Monky Lore.
Some scholars believe the famous three monkeys — speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil — originated in Japan in association with the Mt. Hiei multiplex and the sacred monkey of the Hie Shrine (Hie Jinja 日吉神社; also called Hiyoshi Taisha 日吉大社). The central deity at Mt. Hiei is SANNOU (lit. = Mountain King 山王). Sannou’s messenger (tsukai 使い) and avatar (権現) is the monkey. The Sannou deity is broadly conceived, for Sannou actually represents three Buddhas (Shaka, Yakushi, and Amida), who in turn represent the three most important Shinto KAMI (deities) of Hie Shrine. These three Kami are Omiya (大宮), Ninomiya (二宮), and Shoushinshi (聖真子). All six are considered to be manifestations of the Sannou deity. Collectively, there are 21 Sannou deities at Mt. Hiei, each associated with a specific Buddhist counterpart. The manifestations of the Sannou deity are called “Hie Sannou Gongen” (日吉山王権現 Mountain King Avatars of Hie Shrine) — gongen means “avatar,” and the most common form of this avatar is the monkey. Moreover, the number three is of tremendous importance in Tendai doctrine. This all supports the notion (still contested) that the three-monkey motif originated in Japan in association with Mt. Hiei and its Tendai Shinto-Buddhist traditions.
Comment by Alf G — 28 July, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
billj (#50) should stop spluttering about “scabby sell outs” and be more precise: which CPB members in the North West Region tried to get a longstanding SWP member the sack? Initials will do. Are you sure the main person concerned was not a Labour Party member, for whom the CPB can take no responsibility?
In report backs from CPB executive meetings, I have been told that the party does not support the way that Unison has handled the case being discussed on this thread, regarding it as a bureaucratic approach which will not resolve political questions.
Nor can the CPB be held responsible for what its members are required to do in their capacity as full-time employees of a trade union, under instruction from senior elected officials and the National Executive.
Comment by Party hack — 29 July, 2009 @ 9:44 am
#57
Ahh yes, but there are a few points to note:
i) four fifths of the UK population do not live in London, and often have a very different expereince and outlook from Londoners. Often Londoners simply assume that the rest of the UK is the same as where they live - it often isn’t.
ii) While London may be at the centre of the Uk economy and political and cultural life, that doesn’t mean that a union branch in London is any more influential than a union branch in, for example, Norwich.
iii) A handfull of activists forming a local group in Stroud would think of themselves as a local group; the same small number of peace activists from across London forming a group would be inclined to proclaim themselevs a national organisation.
Comment by Andy Newman — 29 July, 2009 @ 9:47 am
i) four fifths of the UK population do not live in London, and often have a very different expereince and outlook from Londoners. Often Londoners simply assume that the rest of the UK is the same as where they live - it often isn’t.
No need to extrapolate that from the discussion above. I was simply referring to the union branches I know about.
iii) A handfull of activists forming a local group in Stroud would think of themselves as a local group; the same small number of peace activists from across London forming a group would be inclined to proclaim themselevs a national organisation.
Such as?
Comment by pedant — 29 July, 2009 @ 10:14 am
#61
I wasn’t having a go at you Pedant - it was a more general point
one example - Iraq Occupation Focus. Who for example had the pretensions of holding “national” conferences, only involving their mates from London.
Comment by Andy Newman — 29 July, 2009 @ 10:22 am
Big difference between four and the SWP member
Comment by Terry — 30 July, 2009 @ 12:16 am
My understanding from comrades in UNISON was that
The United (not so)Left stood in recent UNISON NEC elections on the very issue of the witchunt and lost seats
This was very unwise as it gave the leadership another mandate to carry on with the witchunt
madness
Comment by Ian — 30 July, 2009 @ 12:26 am
Personally I think this is more of a damning indictment of education.
How on earth can anyone get to adulthood without knowing the phrase and the origins?
Comment 4 was highly amusing though. For a moment I wondered if it was intended as parody - noting that past phrases can change meaning. But then I realised that it wasn’t.
Which was a shame.
Can we now have a witch hunt over the use of Witch Hunt please? Then we can follow that with a Witch Hunt against people who Fox Hunt. Come to think of it, Simon Weisenthal was on a Nazi Hunt his whole life. Maybe there are just too many hunts about.
Michael Hunt.
Comment by Mike — 10 August, 2009 @ 11:52 am