SOCIALIST UNITY

6 May, 2009

93 Comments »

1. Now I can speak as someone who has been directly affected or should I displaced by the Olympics, I am one of the 450 residents who lived on Clays Lane housing cooperative, until we were forced off by the compulsory purchase of our co-op and with the help of Livingstone and the London Borough of Newham.
   I can only speak for myself when I say I really do miss my old home, it had it’s faults like anything else but it was a dam site cheaper than the overall cost of my council flat in Canning Town. I’m not going to pick holes in Abjol’s speech, but lets get one thing straight the Olympics was not sold, it was imposed on us!

   Comment by JimL — 6 May, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

2. Good stuff from Respect. V. Sad they’re not backing No2EU and helping to unite the working class left in euro elections. Nontheless with this approach I am sure there will be opprtunities to cooperate with RMT, Cpb and SP on future initiatives.

   Comment by jota — 6 May, 2009 @ 3:45 pm

3. “RMT, Cpb and SP on future initiatives.”

   Strange bedfellows!

   Comment by JimL — 6 May, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

4. Excellent speech by Abjol. Nice to see Respect making trade union issues and disputes the top priority in the last two weeks or so.

   Just came across the “No2EU – Yes to Democracy”(good that they added that last bit) candidates list and this is the list for London:

   London – Eight candidates
   Bob Crow – RMT general secretary
   John Hendy QC – Leading human rights lawyer
   Professor Mary Davis – Lecturer in trade union studies
   Kevin Nolan – Visteon convener, Enfield site
   Syed Islam – Social worker and Bangladeshi community activist
   Onay Kasab – Greenwich UNISON branch secretary
   John Rowe – Health worker and former election agent for Peter Shore MP
   Nick Wrack – socialist barrister

   Pleased too see Nick Wrack standing. Its so sad that the Respect NC did not folllow his example and support “No2EU – Yes to Democracy” (warts and all) resulting in Nick resigning as Respect national secretary (but remaining on the Respect NC). The reason given at the time was that Respect would stand in London in the Euro elections despite not having the resources or manpwer for a London wide election. Its clear now that this was never on the cards and never a real possibity yet Respect is still not on the candidate list or an offcial supporter other that that given by individual Respect branches. An opportunity missed that would have allowed Respect to build bridges and allianaces for next year when it needs to win in East London ans South Birmingham - campaigns I hope all on the Left will support whatever mistake we may have made this summer.

   “No2EU – Yes to Democracy” candidates list:
   http://www.no2eu.com/candidates.html

   London – Eight candidates
   Bob Crow – RMT general secretary
   John Hendy QC – Leading human rights lawyer
   Professor Mary Davis – Lecturer in trade union studies
   Kevin Nolan – Visteon convener, Enfield site
   Syed Islam – Social worker and Bangladeshi community activist
   Onay Kasab – Greenwich UNISON branch secretary
   John Rowe – Health worker and former election agent for Peter Shore MP
   Nick Wrack – socialist barrister

   West Midlands – Six candidates
   David John Nellist – Socialist Party Councillor and Coventry MP from 1983 to 1992
   Dyal Singh Bagri – President, Indian Workers Association (pc)
   Malcolm Gribbin – Retired teacher, school governor
   Jo Stevenson – Youth CND treasurer
   Peter MacLaren – Alliance for Green Socialism
   Andy Chaffer – Birmingham trades council

   East Midlands – Five candidates
   John McEwan – Lindsey Oil Refinery worker
   Avtar Sadiq – Unity for Peace and Socialism party
   Jean Thorpe – UNISON NEC member
   Shangara Singh Gahonia – Unity for Peace and Socialism party
   Laurence Platt – UNITE branch secretary (pc)

   Wales – Four candidates
   Rob Griffiths – Communist Party of Britain general secretary
   Rob Williams – Unite convener of the Linemar plant in Swansea
   Laura Picand – UNISON Wales staff member
   Trevor Jones – Deeside trades council secretary

   North West – Eight candidates
   Roger Bannister – Unison NEC member
   Les Skarrot – FBU executive committee
   Craig Johnston – RMT executive
   Alec MacFadden – President of Merseyside trades council
   Steve Radford – Liberal Party councillor
   Lynn Worthington – Community and healthcare campaigner
   John Metcalfe – Former deputy Labour leader of Carlisle council
   Harry Smith – One of the 47 surcharged Liverpool Labour councillors

   Scotland – Six candidates
   John Foster – Scottish Campaign Against Euro Federalism secretary
   Tommy Sheridan – Solidarity Co-Convenor
   Leah Ganley – Student at Dundee University
   Stuart Hyslop – Retired seafarer RMT
   Ajit Singh Uppal – Indian Workers Association (pc)
   Tom Morrison – Secretary Clydebank TUC

   Yorkshire & Humberside – Six candidates
   Keith Gibson – Lindsey oil refinery worker
   Celia Foote – Alliance for Green Socialism
   Councillor Jackie Grunsell – Save Huddersfield NHS councillor
   Peter March – RMT regional secretary
   Mike Davies – Alliance for Green Socialism secretary
   Juliet Marie Boddington – Alliance for Green Socialism activist

   South East – Ten candidates
   Professor Dave Hill – Former East Sussex Labour Group leader
   Garry Hassell – RMT executive committee
   Kevin Hayes – Ford worker
   Owen Morris –Construction worker and supporter of Lindsey and Olympic site protests
   Gawain Little – Teacher and CND National Council member
   Robert Wilkinson – NUT Wokingham and District Secretary
   Jacqui Berry – Medway trades council president
   Nick Wright – Graphic designer and teacher
   Nick Chaffey – Youth worker
   Sarah Wrack – Student Sussex University

   Eastern – Seven candidates
   Brian Denny – Journalist and democracy campaigner
   Frank Jepson – Visteon factory convener, Basildon
   Steve Glennon – shop steward at GSK in Ware, Hertfordshire
   Phil Katz – Author and designer
   Eleanor Donne – UNISON steward (pc), local government worker
   Pete Relph – Environmental campaigner
   Ron Rodwell – Former CWU activist RMT staff rep

   North East – Three candidates
   Martin Levy – Newcastle trades council president
   Hannah Walter – UNISON shop steward (pc)
   Peter Pinkney – RMT activist

   South West – Six candidates
   Alex Gordon – RMT executive committee
   Roger Davey – Health worker
   Rachel Lynch – NUT activist (pc)
   Nick Quirk – RMT executive committee
   John Chambers – Retired T&G union official
   Paul Dyer – Barnstaple trades council secretary

   Comment by Neil Williams — 6 May, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

5. “The reason given at the time was that Respect would stand in London in the Euro elections despite not having the resources or manpwer for a London wide election. Its clear now that this was never on the cards and never a real possibity.”

   I’m afraid you have been mis-informed Neil. That was not the basis of the motion passed at the last NC - a motion which explicitly allowed Respect members to support and stand for No2EU if they so chose. Considering that many members of the NC had serious reservations about No2EU (reservations that have been raised by many people outside Respect including in No2EU itself) - the compromise position which allowed individual members and branches of Respect to decide who, if anyone, to support in this election, seems to me to be a very sensible position.

   Comment by Clive Searle — 6 May, 2009 @ 10:49 pm

6. Big gamble for brother Crow putting his own personal reputation on the line as lead candidate in London.

   Comment by Andy Newman — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:23 pm

7. so now we have the logic of Lindsey in Tower Hamlets. Basically kick workers out of their jobs if they are not from the area!! I am oppossed to the olympics but the idea its a tower hamlets local project is a bit off the wall. I suppose the eden project should have just had cornish workers to ensure those devon workers are kept out. This is not about unity at all but local horse trading and setting one group of workers against another all for a few votes. sorry but Respect are in the gutter. The lack of support from Respect for Visteon is staggering but pandering and promoting division inside our class is really beyond any form of principle.

   Comment by ll — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:30 pm

8. Neil, I don’t understand your criticism. Respect is backing No2EU, but the organisation has the flexibility to back other organisations in other areas.

   I suspect there’s some mis-selling of what’s happened by those who forced the issue to a vote when it never needed to go to one - they’ve caused needless irritation.

   The great thing about Respect is, different people are able to work with the strengths in their own areas. The motion to give unequivocal, absolute support to No2EU was unnecessary; the motion that was passed gives support but flexibility, which is exactly what a small organisation like Respect needs. It allows those in Respect who want to to work seriously with No2EU, and those who think the Greens need support in the North West to do so.

   Unfortunately, the issue was made into a pointless polarisation for somewhat unclear reasons.

   Comment by external bulletin — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:30 pm

9. #7 “The lack of support from Respect for Visteon is staggering”

   That would also be a direct lie from ll. Respect completely supported the Visteon workers.

   Comment by Andy Newman — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:32 pm

10. Andy, someone is pretending to post as “ll” - even he was never that ridiculous.

    (Here, I used to work for a co-operative, a fairly left wing one, and it had a policy of using local companies wherever possible. It was considered a good way of supporting the local community; it’s an arguable position, of course, but when you’ve spun off and become as ultra left as our SWP friend “ll” above, the only thing that matters is attacking others on the left)

    Comment by external bulletin — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:34 pm

11. Looks like it was a great speech from Abjol Miah.
    Good to see the candidates’ list and great to see Bob Crow leading from the front with his name top of the London list - it’s called having the courage of your convictions.
    Best of all, it’s great to see the RMT, the Communist Party and the Socialist Party in an electoral alliance together, along with the pro-working class elements of the Respect Party. Hopefully, this will be just the start and again hopefully, the SWP will take part in the future.

    Comment by Karl Stewart — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:34 pm

12. #4 Yes, a bizarre statement from Neil Williams who surely should have known better. The argument of those who did not want to support a blanket endorsement of No2EU was never primarily that Respect wanted to stand in London, or anyone else.

    The argument was rather that Respect had never previously endorsed any other national organisation in an election and there was no compelling reason to do that in this election, which sadly is evoking minimal interest amongst the public.

    It was also argued that Respect should leave options open to stand, but under the guiding principle that decisions on standing or supporting other parties locally should be on the basis of strengthening Respect with regard to the general and local elections in 2010.

    The prevailing motion, which seems to have precipitated the resignation of Nick Wrack as Respect national secretary, explicitly stated that No2EU would be standing progressive candidates and that some members of Respect might wish to actively support it and even join its list. Some members of Respect have clearly decided that is what they wish to do, whilst others have decided otherwise.

    It remains to be seen how well No2EU does and what the significance of its vote is, but why should anyone believe that bridges have been burnt, etc, because the Respect National Council took the decision it took? That is just silly.

    Comment by vladimir antonov-ovseenko — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:35 pm

13. Post 5
    “the compromise position which allowed individual members and branches of Respect to decide who, if anyone, to support in this election, seems to me to be a very sensible position”.

    Clive its clearly not the same as Respect throwing its weight behind the campaign and putting forward candidates for the N2EU slate as we could have done (other than in the North West where we had a long standing undertaking with the Green party for this election). Yes other groups and parties do have concerns as many of us in Respect have (and myself included)but that did not stop the Socialist Party, Communnist Party and Solidarity supporting it (and who knows maybe the SWP would have had this been allowed?).

    It was a clear decision of the last Respect natonal conference that we would do all we could to build a progressive alliance and after 5 years we still have made very little progress in this area (and too few attempts) which is why I and I am sure some others in Respect are disappointed in this decision. A poor compromise is a poor compromise however it is dressed up and flies in the face of a clear conference decision in my humble opinion. Would it have not been better to have taken up our concerns at an earlier stage with the No2EU organisers and then voted according to the outcome of these discusions?

    Just how can Respect expect others on the Left to throw their weight behind our general election campaign next year if this summer we at a national level remain at best luck warm and at worst anti No2EU?

    Outside of Manchester, small parts of the North West, East London (and other small parts of London), South Birmingham and Bristol Respect branches has stagnated or declined in membership with whole regions with no Respect presence. We just have to face up the realty that Respect only has a future as part of the birth process of forming a new progressive socialist alternative to New Labour. On our own there is little future other than being some sort of electorial cannon fodder for one, two or three possible “star” MP’s (as important as electing them maybe). Respect was formed to be a bottom up organisation and pledged to be different to New Labour in its programme, democracy and accountability and I will continue to fight for this to remain so. I hope things can still change before it is to late?

    Comment by Neil Williams — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:36 pm

14. lack of support Andy means no practical solidarity, no urging members to get collections, visit to picket lines, undertake delegation work etc. Not a jot. But then there is a protest about keeping jobs local in Tower Hamlets and hey presto Respect appears. Not only that but promotes a position which is that workers on the site are not local and should be got rid of… when the evening standard and daily mail run scare stories over immigrant labour at the site.really clever that one…shame Hicks and co couldn’t oppose BJ4BW’s and went along with chants of foreigners out at the stalythorpe demo.. see u tube for the proof.

    Comment by ll — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:39 pm

15. #11 Sorry but it is a complete insult to suggest that people who have reservations about the effectiveness and appropriateness in these elections of No2EU represent a dividing line between “pro” and, presumably, “anti” working class “elements” in Respect. “If you are not with us, you must be against us” has a long and ignoble history in political debate on the serious left. Despite the praise, I think you will find Abjol Miah does not engage in this kind of sectarian thinking. I trust Karl Stewart is not in any way centrally involved in No2EU, because it bodes badly for united action in the future if he is.

    Comment by vladimir antonov-ovseenko — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:44 pm

16. “Respect branches has stagnated or declined in membership with whole regions with no Respect presence.”

    I think Neil is right on this. Respect is indeed a rump and has very little presence. It is focused on cutting deals to try and get a few votes. This also affects its politics. The chances of getting GG re elected are we all know very slim. I think from his point of view he should never have annouced he was not going to stand in the area again.. of course no discussion about this took place but thats another matter. Salma is breaking to the right but hard to see her winning on a respect ticket. The cllr in Newham and TH have a very poor record of developing resistance. All in all GG’s star has badly waned and he is seen by many working class people as a bit of a joke figure from his cat performance and a bully.
    what is curious is that Wrack resigns his position and there is no discussion about it. I have heard Wrack is furious with the organisation and privately saying that RESPECT is finished and Galloway has failed to build the organisation. This may or may not be true but its a point for discussion. It will be interesting to see how respect does in the council elections. I hear on the grapevine that one of the candidates of respect is standing on the single policy of wanting more police on the streets!! It really doesn’t bode well for the future.

    Comment by ll — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:48 pm

17. Vladimir,
    Relax, I support NO2EU, but I’m not running it.
    Why are you so offended by my identification of a distinct pro-working class tendency within the Respect Party?
    I have not referred to anyone in Respect as “anti-working class by the way Vlad.
    Anyway, for what it’s worth, my view is that there are those in Respect such as Nick Wrack and Jerry Hicks for whom class struggle is the key to their political outlook and those such as Andy and Salma Yaqoob and others who project the idea of a broad progressive alliance with non-working class political forces.
    It’s just an opinion that I have from listening to Respect members - why does that offend you Vlad? Do you think I’ve got that totally wrong?

    Comment by Karl Stewart — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:54 pm

18. #14 ll used to be a very unpleasant and utterly sectarian SWP member. Looks like this is the same person.

    SWP members were present on the protest this morning and apparently supporting, although understandably not selling many papers, so perhaps ll is now a dissident member of whom there are a fair few now by all accounts.

    As far as Abjol Miah is concerned, I understand he was invited to speak prior to the protest by protest organisers and spoke very well.

    Any infantile numpty who thinks the protest was in any way characterised by nationalism and xenophobia cannot possibly have been present at the protest. Protestors not only gave a positive reception to Abjol Miah, who funnily enough is neither white nor anglo-saxon, but applauded loudly both Bob Crow and Keith Gibson as they explicitly and vociferously called for solidarity with workers of other European countries.

    And the organisers made sure there were no placards saying British Jobs for British Workers. I suspect this is down to rank and file construction workers and their leaders including Socialist Party member Keith Gibson and Respect party member Jerry Hicks (but not members of the SWP who have utterly marginalised themselves by their initial sectarianism around the Lindsey dispute). All respect to those who were centrally involved in this excellent initiative.

    Comment by vladimir antonov-ovseenko — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:57 pm

19. Karl
    Hicks does have a focus on workers struggle but he panders to nationalist nonsense to get votes… long and sorry history of this sort of thing but lets not ignore it. It was shocking how he behaved on the Stalythorpe demo. his election leaflet did not mention the BJ4BW’s and made no attempt to intervene in that dispute by challenging the divisive slogan at its centre.

    Comment by ll — 6 May, 2009 @ 11:57 pm

20. 18
    I take it that if Hicks went ofr a job at the site the organisers of the protest would object as I understand it he is from Bristol… the protest appears to be saying local people should come first as its in Tower Hamlets… this is crap. I am glad swp members were at the protest as we were at Lindsey etc. I don’t mind being in a minority if that what it takes so be it.

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:02 am

21. “Wrack resigns his position and there is no discussion about it”

    That’s because Nick didn’t go off claiming he was being witch-hunted unlike a previous national secretary. He remains on the NC and will continue to contribute to Respect.

    Still why let facts get a in the way when it comes to posts from the odious II. Are they related to skidmarks ?. seperated at birth ? I think we must be told

    Comment by JFK — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:06 am

22. #16 The perpetually mendacious and moronic ll claims he has heard on the grapevine that one Respect candidate is standing “on the single policy of wanting more police on the streets”. I understand the only Respect candidates standing in elections at the present time are four candidates in Bristol, so I am sure this is the usual complete tosh. But perhaps ll would like to name names rather than just spread malicious gossip. On the other hand, malice is what he specialises in so I guess he won’t. What scum some SWP members have become in the face of their complete failure to achieve their ambition of being the vanguard of the working class.

    Comment by vladimir antonov-ovseenko — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:07 am

23. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8035293.stm

    have a look at the bbc report……….protest against non british workers…. clip of spokesperson stating british workers best in the world the others are not as good………..

    work it out, this is pandering to the right and populist bull. Just when the right wing press are running scare stories about immigrants at the site. The SP and Respect are off the wall if they think this is progress. Why not build on the example of Visteon.. unity in action and not banging on about british workers.

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:09 am

24. #20 No. That’s it. Clearly ll is a spook infiltrated into the SWP to discredit it. No-one can be this stupid if they are not paid by the intelligence services, or completely drunk, or both.

    Comment by vladimir antonov-ovseenko — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:10 am

25. Don’t feed the troll.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:12 am

26. http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/broomhill/Prince-Abdulaziz-Somali-Bristol-stand-council/article-883077-detail/article.html

    If my bull is so true then read this………….this is your candidate calling for more police on the streets, after praising them and saying that law and order is his no 1 priority. This is from the daily newspaper in Bristol. I am sure that its just another example of the press completely lying and really he was arguing for a workers state with armed militia instead….

    PLease read what your candidates are arguing for and then comment at will.

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:21 am

27. an apology from Vladimir is awaited but my bed is calling. Really need to get a grip on your candidates in the west country.

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:24 am

28. Prince Abdulaziz looks like a very good candidate, good luck to him.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:25 am

29. Don’t feed the troll ?

    You can always put down poisoned bait

    Comment by JFK — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:41 am

30. Andy - can’t you do the decent thing and put the fella out of our misery?

    Comment by KrisS — 7 May, 2009 @ 8:30 am

31. ‘how can Respect expect others on the Left to throw their weight behind our general election campaign next year if this summer we at a national level remain at best luck warm and at worst anti No2EU?’

    This attitude makes sence, I suppose, if you reduce ‘the left’ to those supporting the No2EU campaign. Some in Respect adopt this attitude, and in so doing are very much at variance with the original broad left vision behind RESPECT. Taking a non-sectarian and tactically flexible attitude to working with the broad left fits with what RESPECT aspires to do in politics; i.e. help progress the totality of the left, not just this or that section of it. And to those who say we should have put all our eggs in one basket at the Euro election I would point out that in the West Midlands the Green candidate is standing on a slogan of ‘No to racism’. A braver, more pertinent and more left wing platform than the No2EU campaign in the region.

    ‘It was a clear decision of the last Respect national conference that we would do all we could to build a progressive alliance and after 5 years we still have made very little progress in this area’

    We have not the weight to force such realignment. What we can do is work with the broad left in the hope that when objective conditions change we are still in the game in order to try and influence the process, in whatever form it takes. Victory or defeat at the ballot box will determine the strength of our voice, pure and simple. As the Left Alternative discovered, electoral politics is brutal. Having 2 or 3 MP’s (I’d settle for one) would be an absolutely massive and unprecedented political achievement. It is also a hugely difficult one to achieve in a first past the post electoral system. Those who dismiss ‘star’ candidates i.e. ones who have actually managed to impact on public consciousness and crave out a public profile, should display a bit more modesty and a bit less cynicism. The record of the left outside of the Labour party in this particular field is very poor. Respect has created something real: we have an electoral footprint in a very small number of significant areas and a national voice hugely disproportionate to our actual size, as Viva Palestina illustrates. And we have a reach that simply no other part of the left has now, or ever had in the past. Our voice, and others on the left, are going to be badly needed if, as looks likely, we get a new Tory government committed to savage attacks on public spending.

    Comment by Ger Francis — 7 May, 2009 @ 9:01 am

32. andy
    do you agree with the candidates no 1 campaign issue.. more police needed on the streets?

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 10:47 am

33. Crime is a serious issue, and if you spend any time talking to ordnary voters, then more police is often raised as a solution. it is not a stupid idea.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 11:08 am

34. #33 You say it is not a stupid idea, but you don’t actually say if you support more police on the streets or not.

    #31 “Having 2 or 3 MP’s (I’d settle for one) would be an absolutely massive and unprecedented political achievement.” What reason do you have for thinking that you’ll have any MPs after the next election?

    “Respect has created something real: we have an electoral footprint in a very small number of significant areas and a national voice hugely disproportionate to our actual size, as Viva Palestina illustrates.” Scientists find dinosaur footprints sometimes, doesn’t mean the lumbering beasts are still around.

    #18 “very unpleasant and utterly sectarian”, “infantile numpty”
    #22 ” perpetually mendacious and moronic “,” What scum”
    #24 “No-one can be this stupid”. Well perhaps supporters of the Respect(minority) are if they don’t notice the double standard of standing idly by while you hurl abuse at those connected with the SWP, while blowing up over any questioning of their perspectives. Is “vladimir antonov-ovseenko” your real name, or are you hiding behind a pseudonym to hurl abuse? I know Andy Newman hates that. Oh no, my mistake, it’s only when people he disagrees with use screennames that he has a problem. Silly me.

    ll- thanks for the report from Bristol. The line “He believes he can win the seat because of the high number of Somalis who live in the area” is a continuation of the Respect(krazy name, krazy guys) methodology since 2005, explaining why Galloway & co. thought that Somalia was such an important issue here after the Ethiopian invasion. I’d already seen the BBC report, it’s interesting that those supposedly on the left who support protest against foreign labour try so hard to pretend that it’s actually to protect those workers by ensuring equal pay rates.

    Comment by skidmarx — 7 May, 2009 @ 11:56 am

35. Comment 34 from Skidmarx “No-one can be this stupid”. Well perhaps supporters of the Respect(minority) are if they don’t notice the double standard of standing idly by while you hurl abuse at those connected with the SWP, while blowing up over any questioning of their perspectives.”

    Well it may surprise you but as member of the Respect NC I totally agree that sectariarian or even bad temptered attacks on the SWP will get us nowhere and has been going on for too long (as against disagreements which are resonable to voice). The SWP and Respect have gone their own ways but the enemy is not the SWP its the bloody Tories and the neo liberal capitalist policies of New Labour. We must and should work with the many excellent comrades in the SWP when and if this is possible as we should with those in the Socialist, Communist Parties and those still committed to socialism in the Labour Party. But does Respect want to work with thes parties?

    If Respect tries to “go it alone” with its support from just the Muslim community it is doomed to failure in the long term with a strong possibility of no MP’s after the next election (if we had just one it would place us in the same position we are in now). The Labour and Liberal Party are experts, and just as good as Respect (if not better), at mobilising support from a single community group (this was proved in Luton in the last election when Labour held Luton South despite a hard fought fight by the Liberals with Respect frozen out of a two way fight).

    Respect needs to relate to the working people, young people and students and progressive community of Brighton, Coventry, Hull, Luton, Milton Keynes, Cardiff, Newscastle and many other cities and towns as it does to Tower Hamlets and South Birmingham. Only by way of a future Left coalition/alliance would we be able to do this and pose as a national creditable alternative to New Labour. Whatever peoples lack of interest in the Euro elections (and most people give it a big yawn)the No2EU campaign is a national progressive campaign that is trying to present an alternative to New Labours policies with a good slate of progressive candidates accros the UK. Its one that deserved support and for my money more socialist and progresive in orientation than that presented by the Green Party whether in the North West or anywhere else.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 7 May, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

36. “Crime is a serious issue, and if you spend any time talking to ordnary voters, then more police is often raised as a solution. it is not a stupid idea.”

    Andy, why do you always assume those who disagree with you don’t talk to other human beings lol… many voters talk about asylum seekers and immigration but we don’t pander to it. There is a left response to the issue of crime and aping the right wing more police on the streets line is not one of them. But then I take it you support more police patrolling working class areas!!! they were great at the G20 !!!!

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 1:38 pm

37. #36 “There is a left response to the issue of crime ”

    Well go on then, let’s have a serious debate. what do you think is the “left response to the issue of crime”?

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

38. “No2EU campaign is a national progressive campaign”

    Really - not mush of a campaign in evidence yet.

    ” more socialist and progresive in orientation than that presented by the Green Party whether in the North West or anywhere else.”

    Really - that’s why in the North west they’ve got a Liberal on the slate is it? That’s why it’s name deliberately looks like a UKIP offshoot - to take votes that from the BNP?

    Comment by TLC — 7 May, 2009 @ 1:53 pm

39. ok Andy

    Crime is a term which in popular discourse is more often than not used to refer to working class communities. It usually refers to burglary, graffitti, assualts etc etc but of course also fiddling while on the dole, drunken behaviour etc. It usually does not refer to the crimes of those with wealth and power in society eg health and safety, low wages, tax avoidance , police violence etc.

    2. That crime is connected to social environments. Therefore during recession some forms of crime increase. That the root causes of crime are not individual failure, human nature or nasty people but social deprivation, poverty of expectations (often correcetdly based) and a failure of a collective solution to an individuals or a communities problems.

    3. Recognise that if an election campaign is focused on crime and the answer provided by Respect is more police on the streets is inevitably a right wing response and one that does not offer a single point of difference with new labour and the Tories.

    4. Now called me old fashioned but I hold the view that the Police are not on working class communites side in any shape or form. The police are used to harrass and attack workers organsiation when they come into conflict with the bosses. How do you think the occupation at Basildon was ended…. with riot cops as I understand it. The police are well knwon as institutionally racist and therefore the idea that they are going to help a community with a significant somalia population is to be polite total bullshit. The G20 attacks are nothing new as I am sure you would agree. What is interesting is the public response.on the protesters side. so what a time to demand more of these thugs on the streets!!??

    5. Andy , you seem able and willing to support any demand yoUr candidates put up. You defend demands for more police, british jobs for british workers, local Tower Hamlets jobs for Tower Hamlets people, defend Gordon Brown. The march to the right goes on apace. It just seems that you are going to far from your ISG mates and they seem ready to jump ship or at least raise some objections. Vladimair claimed I was lying when I said that your candidate was raising these demands for more police. I understand his point because at least they thought it would be so far from the bounds of normal left opinion that it couildn’t be true. You on the other hand think its a really good move.

    Comment by ll — 7 May, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

40. Is anyone else waiting for Moha to weigh in and say that actually what is needed is a ‘No2EU - Yes to kibbutzim’ electoral campaign?

    Comment by Mikey — 7 May, 2009 @ 3:16 pm

41. With respect to Neil, I am not aware of anybody who has ever argued that we should “go it alone with support from just the Muslim community”. In my experience it is the Muslim members in particular who are most anxious that we push outside of our base areas. Not only is this argument false, it’s simplistic and only avoids the deeper political reasons for why the left, RESPECT included, is largely marginal.

    One of those reasons has to do with the partial nature of the break with New Labour provoked by opposition to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. The premise behind the launching of RESPECT an expectation that this break would go deeper and wider than it actually did. As it turned out it was limited and most pronounced within the Muslim community. Our support base therefore has a one-sidedness to it. Until some favourable shift to the left in the objective situation (which will probably require class struggle to be the catalyst) there is very little we can do to alter the nature of the terrain we stand on. Voluntarism (and moralism) will make no substantial difference. I am sure if we had the money to recruit a team of national organisers we would be able to rebuild old RESPECT groups and start new ones in a whole number of areas. But to a greater or lesser degree, I don’t believe they would be any bigger or more rooted that what existed before the split. If it’s all really as simple about having the right demands, Neil should ask himself why he has found it difficult building in his area where he pretty much has had free rein to do what he wants?

    All RESPECT can do is to make sure that we never lose touch with the anti-imperialism impulse of our base because this is the biggest factor in people voting for us. Viva Palestina was critical for that reason. We also need to try to connect with the broader public on other issues. Invariably, with the exception of what we did around Viva Palestina, that reduces us to propaganda and trying to use our electoral base in specific areas to campaign, usually around very localized issues, because we don’t have the influence or social weight to do anything more ambitious.

    Those investing great hopes NO2EU, or the emergence of some embryonic workers party arising from it, are deluding themselves in my opinion. For one thing, as others have pointed out, its platform is seriously flawed. At a time when there is a real threat of the BNP getting elected I defy anybody to argue that the West Midlands Green candidate standing under of slogan of ‘No to racism’ is to the right of the NO2EU candidate standing under a slogan which those on the genuine right are much more comfortable with. I have no idea how the NO2EU campaign will do in the West Mids. I will be surprised if it retains its deposit. But if it does, there is a strong likelihood it will have done so on the basis of attracting confused UKIP type voters.

    Comment by Ger Francis — 7 May, 2009 @ 3:20 pm

42. #35 I don’t know if one righteous man in the city of Sodom is enough to save it from heavenly wrath, but your intervention is welcome. I think there is a contradiction between the idea that Respect is trying to be a part of a broad progressive alliance and the idea that areas where it has had electoral support in the past are purely for itself that means that it is more of a hindrance than a help to left unity.

    #37 “Well go on then, let’s have a serious debate.”

    Without wanting to delay you in answering ll, perhaps you might start by saying if you support more police on the streets or not.

    #41 “I defy anybody to argue that the West Midlands Green candidate standing under of slogan of ‘No to racism’ is to the right of the NO2EU candidate standing under a slogan which those on the genuine right are much more comfortable with.”

    I don’t know the details of the two individual candidates. But I know that it’s quite possible for Green candidates (and others) to sound radical and then be indistinguishable from the right in practice, and would assume that a candidate with some roots in the socialist and labour movement would be preferable. I’d also thought that No2EU might end up with some ex-UKIP votes. But given the way the EU elites have shown their contempt for democracy, I don’t think that’s all a “Yes to racism” vote.

    Comment by skidmarx — 7 May, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

43. #39

    ll - those arguments would go down a storm in the context of a marxist discussion group.

    Everything you say is utterly abstract, and crime and fear of crime is a very real issue in working class communities, many of whom do see more police as being an answer. This can indeed by goven a left gloss in the sense of why are there more police protecting the property of the wealthy suburbs, rather than dealing with street crime where poorer people live.

    as such, it is a demand that is mainstream within the labour movement, including on the left, for example Ken Livingstone has emphasised the success of increasing Metropolitian police visibility.

    Now the fact that a community leader of the Somalians in Easton raises the issue suggests that the Somalis do not expereinice the presence of the police as quite the direct problem for them that you do.

    I personlly have no problem with the idea of more police, but as the Cheif Constable of Strathclyde pointed out a couple of years ago, he already has enough police, what he could do with to reduce crime is the council employing more social workers.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

44. Post 38 TLC
    “Really - that’s why in the North west they’ve got a Liberal on the slate is it? That’s why it’s name deliberately looks like a UKIP offshoot - to take votes that from the BNP?”

    I suggest you look at the real policies on the No2EU web site rather than the rummers and misinformation that may have circulated.

    Am i to believe that in any progressive coalition we would never allow even one Liberal to support a campaign? What about the other candidates?

    Check it out:
    http://www.no2eu.com/

    Comment by Neil Williams — 7 May, 2009 @ 5:07 pm

45. Neil

    This doesn’t need to be a polarising discussion. there are differences in assessment of the relative merits of different avenues of cooperation with other forces on the left.

    NO2EU is breadly progressive, but included far too narrow social forces in my opinion to make any headway in the few weeks to the euro-election.

    Equally, the Greens are also broadly progessive, and there remains merit in working with the Labour Party.

    Personally, in the South West i would prefer to vote labour, but will probably vote Green for tactical reasons as the potentially more effective anti-BNP vote.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 5:23 pm

46. The speech by the councillor strikes me as extremely good. The bile in the thread, however, is just depressing.

    Are you guys gonna get this or not: you’re heading for the far right getting over a million votes and maybe some seats; the Tories are gaining from the social democrats malaise and not the left; the far left, meanwhile, is ripping lumps out of each other. If the characters here who claim to be of the SWP truly are, then it’s an appalling indictment.

    Why don’t you just decide to follow your separate courses and seek cooperation where you can? It’s not enough by any means. But it might be a start.

    Comment by Jericho — 7 May, 2009 @ 5:50 pm

47. Socialist Unity just gets funnier all the time! I only wish I wasn’t so engaged in the class struggle so that I could get my jollies everyday.

    Have fun comrades!

    Comment by Salacious Crumb — 7 May, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

48. Just uploaded these pix from the picket:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bolshie/

    You can also see my pix from the massive march for migrant workers last Saturday, The contrast couldn’t be clearer.
    There seems to be some denial here about the minority of backward elements, including BJ4BW placards, Union Jacks and a UKIP MEP who spoke to loud cheers. Get real comrades, if you downplay these aspects it weakens the movement.

    Comment by paddy garcia — 7 May, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

49. Well Ger I do respect your views but i hope you in turn will respect mine and accept there are other views in Respect (I can assure you that i will work as hard a sanyone to elect Salma next year as an MP). You state in post 41 “For one thing, as others have pointed out, its platform is seriously flawed. At a time when there is a real threat of the BNP getting elected I defy anybody to argue that the West Midlands Green candidate standing under of slogan of ‘No to racism’ is to the right of the NO2EU candidate standing under a slogan which those on the genuine right are much more comfortable with”.

    Well here are the real policies of No2EU campain - just three examples. If these policies had been put before a Respect conference I am certain that they would have been supported as part of a N2EU coalition with some reservations (which other parties have also made clear while still supporting at national level).

    Now just what below could the average Respect member object to? And if this is the case why could we have not supported it at natonal level just as the Socialist Party and Solidarity did with some reservations (like the use of the word social dumping)?

    So are these policies and others ones that the “genuine right” would be happy with? Ger post 41 “under a slogan which those on the genuine right are much more comfortable with”

    Racism:
    Vote to keep out the BNP
    The main political parties’ support for the turning over of major legal, economic and political powers to unelected and remote EU institutions has alienated millions of people from politics and has played into the hands of the far right.

    The growing cynicism created by politicians is leading to a rise in support for far-right, fascist parties such as the British National Party.

    Yet, the BNP has no answers. They peddle hate and seek to undermine organisations that working people rely on to protect them like trade unions.

    The BNP claims to oppose the European Union but its leader, who denies the holocaust took place, can’t wait to get on the gravy train and link up with other fascist parties from Italy and France in the European parliament.

    Vote No2EU - Yes to Democracy to oppose the BNP and resist the threat to exploit the current economic crisis to promote racist political ends.

    Public Services
    Keep your public services public
    The Lisbon Treaty and the EU’s privatisation agenda represent a significant threat to working class communities and to the services we all rely on.

    The renamed EU consttituion forces governments to hand public services over to private corporations – that means handing fat cats control of railways, schools, postal services, energy and even social services across Europe.

    Under Article III-147 of the EU Constitution: “A European framework law shall establish measures to achieve the liberalisation of a specific service”. That provision remains in the Lisbon Treaty.

    This commitment to ‘free competition’ enshrined in successive EU treaties was the main reason that Tories originally supported the EU. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher signed the Single European Act in 1986 to establish a single European market and John Major agreed the Maastricht Treaty, which created the Euro, the European Central Bank and tied European economies into a ‘Growth and Stability Pact’ that squeezes public investment in public services.
    The current economic crisis was created by these discredited neo-liberal policies yet, under the Lisbon Treaty, they become constitutional goals. We should be defending public services in Britain not allowing bankers and eurocrats take them over in order to make money for big business in Europe.

    Vote No2EU - Yes to Democracy to defend public services such as Post Offices and the NHS and to renationalise our railways and develop manufacturing in Britain.

    Workers Rights
    Stand up for workers’ rights
    The social dumping of exploited foreign workers in Britain is being carried out under EU rules demanding the “free movement of capital, goods, services and labour” within the EU. Successive EU Directives and European Court of Justice decisions have also been used to attack trade union collective bargaining, the right to strike and workers’ pay and conditions.

    The Single European Market, created by the Tory government with the Single European Act in 1987, creates a pool of working people to be exploited and treated no better than a commodity like a tin of beans. These EU rules allow employers to escape from national collective bargaining and employment legislation and impose lower wages and worse working conditions, creating a “race to the bottom”.

    These EU rules, which no-one asked for, have been behind some of the most bitter industrial disputes in recent years, like the Irish Ferries dispute, the strike of Gate Gourmet workers at Heathrow, and the Lindsey oil refinery workers’ strike.

    The European Court of Justice has even decreed in the Laval and Viking cases that collective agreements that protect workers’ conditions contravene the ‘free movement’ of labour in the single market.

    The recent protests at Lindsey, supported by workers across Britain, were not against foreign workers or xenophobic. These workers were simply defending the fundamental right to work under union agreements – a right not given by EU directives or treaties.

    The so-called ‘free movement’ of labour is part of the development of a deeply racist Fortress Europe which would increasingly exclude people from outside the EU and undermine wages and working conditions inside the bloc.

    To ferry workers across Europe to carry out jobs that local workers can be trained to perform is an environmental, economic and social nonsense.

    If ‘food-miles’ represent an unacceptably large carbon footprint, then ‘labour-miles’ and shunting human beings around Europe in the pursuit of profit is even more damaging.
    In the 1980s recession Tory minister Norman Tebbit famously told the unemployed to ‘get on their bikes’ to look for work. Nowwell-shod government ministers advise workers in Britain ‘to get on a plane’ and find work elsewhere in the EU!

    Vote No2EU - Yes to Democracy to resist the EU turning human beings into commodities to be shunted around Europe while local workers are excluded from being able to provide for their families.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 7 May, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

50. Ger Francis - Greens better than no2eu in West Mids? Dave Nellist is no1 no2eu candidate in West Midlands - and he will be giving a real internationalist and socialist message at every public meeting across the region. Madness to advocate some liberal green over a working class fighter.

    Comment by jota — 7 May, 2009 @ 6:42 pm

51. The value or otherwise of the NO2EU campaign and its doubtless many worthy candidates, the sterling work they will be doing at public meetings, and the policies are all very well.

    But the campaign has insufficent social weight behind it and wil hardly ripple the surface, the vast majority of boters will never even learn of its existence, and may of its votes will be due to confused UKIP supporters putting a cross in the wrong box.

    That is not to denigrate the excellent comrades involved, but let us have some sense of perspective.

    Added to which, from a tactical point of view in those constituences where there is a clear and present danger of a BNP vicotry, then the No2Eu vote is a wasted vote.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 6:53 pm

52. paddy garcia,

    Had a look at some pictures from the migrant workers, some people on the march appear to be carrying union jacks! Are they reactionary backward elements as well?

    Comment by Duncan — 7 May, 2009 @ 7:57 pm

53. Get a grip mate. I don’t agree with it but the context is entirely different. One demo consisted entirely of burly white men quite a few of whom had been drinking heavily and were quite pissed and agressive, yes even at 630am! The other was a multi racial, multi cultural mix of people, both men and women amongst whom were some of the lowest paid members of the British working class.
    The migrant workers march was organised by mainly religious groups, charities, NGOs etc. unfortunately with hardly any organised labour movement input. The union jacks were handed out by the stewards. Had it been a Labour movement event I very much doubt this would have happened.

    Comment by paddy garcia — 7 May, 2009 @ 8:07 pm

54. Having said that the vast majority of those workers were just fine and I had some interesting chats with them. My point is that the backward elements have to be condemned and isolated and I feel that this is not been sufficiently done, which results in those dodgy placards and union jacks making continual appearances on these events. I didn’t see anyone, apart from some of the regular left activists who came down to support the picket suggesting to those who were holding them that it wasn’t a good idea to do so. As you can see one particular individual went up to the press line and enthusiastically posed for the cameras with a BJ4BW placard. Suggesting that we did not ignore in his view the main reason for the picket. This may well have been a minority view but it really needs to be faced and tackled head on with no mercy or any compromise whatsoever.

    Comment by paddy garcia — 7 May, 2009 @ 8:24 pm

55. Andy post 51
    “Added to which, from a tactical point of view in those constituences where there is a clear and present danger of a BNP vicotry, then the No2Eu vote is a wasted vote.”

    I really do not see the logic of this. If you dont try you will never know and using your won logic others could have argued in the past that a vote for Respect was just such a “waste of time” (which new New labour tried to use aganst use many times)which clearly it was not.

    “in those constituences where there is a clear and present danger of a BNP vicotry, then the No2Eu vote is a wasted vote”

    So are these a waste of a vote where the BNP are standing. I think not.

    London
    Bob Crow – RMT general secretary
    Nick Wrack – socialist barrister

    West Midlands
    David John Nellist – Socialist Party Councillor and Coventry MP from 1983 to 1992
    Dyal Singh Bagri – President, Indian Workers Association (pc)

    East Midlands
    John McEwan – Lindsey Oil Refinery worker

    North West
    Roger Bannister – Unison NEC member
    Les Skarrot – FBU executive committee
    Craig Johnston – RMT executive
    Alec MacFadden – President of Merseyside trades council
    John Metcalfe – Former deputy Labour leader of Carlisle council
    Harry Smith – One of the 47 surcharged Liverpool Labour councillors

    South East
    Professor Dave Hill – Former East Sussex Labour Group leader
    Garry Hassell – RMT executive committee
    Kevin Hayes – Ford worker
    Owen Morris –Construction worker and supporter of Lindsey and Olympic site protests

    and many others.

    A list that Respect would have been pround to have been part of if we could have gathered similar people for the last London wide elections but failed to do so.

    Give me these people any day to a alliance with the Greens who up to now have ignored all calls for unity with Respect over five years.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 7 May, 2009 @ 8:29 pm

56. Neil

    Tactically, any party that gets less votes than the BNP is a watsed vote from the point of view of stopping them, becasue under the d@hondt system those votes will automatically be discounted; and yes I argued Respect should not have stood in the NW in 2004 for that very reason.

    Voting for NO2EU in the NW would be a self indulgent form of ultra leftism becasue NO2EU cannot get more votes than the BNP. It is essential to get people to vote either Green or labour to stop Griffin.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 7 May, 2009 @ 8:41 pm

57. Andy I think the working people of this country have the right to vote any way they want and in particuler vote for a progressive alternative to new Labour where its exists. Many who have a trade union, socialist background will never vote for the Green Party any more than they wil again vote for New Labour. These working people deserve representation - its what I thought Respect was all about.

    Nobody knows the possible support for N2EU has its has never existed before (its most likely once again to be a poor turnnot for all parties). Using your own arguement only a vote for New Labour would be the strongest way of stopping the BNP in the North West but is this all the election should be about? The Greens had they wished could have been part of No2EU (and just think of the possible impact of the combined possible alliance)but clearly chose not to do so as they have always done over some years.

    I really dont see it as “Voting for NO2EU in the NW would be a self indulgent form of ultra leftism” as those in the Socialist Party, Communist Party, Solidarity and clearly some of us in Respect would disagree with you strongly.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 7 May, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

58. “Give me these people any day to a alliance with the Greens who up to now have ignored all calls for unity with Respect over five years.”

    I’m sorry Neil but the only people on your list of candidates for No2EU who has shown the slightest interest in ‘unity with respect over five years’ are …. Nick Wrack and Alec McFadden. The rest have also ignored calls for unity. What’s fault in the goose is surely failing in the gander as well?

    As for your sudden dislike of the Greens. It’s very strange that you denounce them for their failings over the last few years but ignore the fact that Respect and Greens are working well together in the North West in a campaign against the BNP. There is real unity in action here.

    Meanwhile No2EU has shown no interest in broader ‘unity’ with only some invited to join. That of course if their absolute right but please let’s not pretend that this was some serious attempt to pull the whole left together.

    If the people involved in No2EU are serious about left unity then they will understand completely that others may not feel comfortable with their strategy and tactics especially as they appeared so late in the day - and surely they will seek to join discussions in the post-election period. I’m sure they will welcome support where it comes and friendly criticism elsewhere.

    However, if their condition for joint work with others is ‘you’ve got to back NO2EU or we wont talk to you’ then I suggest we are no nearer a new left formation than before.

    Comment by TLC — 7 May, 2009 @ 11:24 pm

59. When it comes to casting their ballot the vast majority of voters will not read No2EU’s detailed policy statements. Many will vote according to familiarity. No2EU is slogan that very large numbers of those who have voted for UKIP and worse will have a knee jerk familiarity with. The Greens slogan in the West Midlands and the NW, ‘No to racism’, is one that many of the same people will also have a knee jerk familiarity with, and opposition to. It is quite possible that No2EU end up polling well but I believe this will only happen by it getting a significant reactionary vote by default. I think we can safely say this is not a problem the Greens are going to face.

    Comment by Ger Francis — 7 May, 2009 @ 11:31 pm

60. greens see themselves as THE alternative to New Labour. Not only are they basically Liberal but fundamentally hostile to a new worker’s party, as a challenge to their development as the main pole for progressive votes. If some in Respect want to get on board with the Green Party project, do so. However, I’m confident that the majority of Respect would rather be part of the process of building a new workers party, which the No2eu list is an important step toward, although far from a perfect finished article.

    Comment by jota — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:12 am

61. Manchester Respect members and Green party members will be working together in this joint action on Sunday.

    ————–
    Euro Election 2009 - Stop the BNP in the North West

    Mass Leafleting the Manchester derby - City v United at Old Trafford
    Sunday 10th May

    Kick off is at 1.30pm
    Meet at 12 noon - Junction of Chester Rd and Sir Matt Busby Way

    This match will have a capacity crowd of 76,000. We will needs lots of people to make an impact but there’s not many places we are going to find that many Mancunians in one place. We intend to hand out thousands of leaflets putting the case for voting against the BNP in the Euro-elections.

    Please invite your friends along to participate.

    —————–

    If I may be so bold, perhaps a little more doing and rather a little less abstract posturing..

    Comment by Richard Searle — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:18 am

62. #61 Good initiative.

    Come on you Reds!

    Comment by anticapitalista — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:22 am

63. United fans everywhere

    Comment by Richard Searle — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:28 am

64. Sickening, isn’t it?

    All the best with the leafleting.

    Comment by KrisS — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:42 am

65. Just looked at Paddy Garcia’s pictures (comment 48). It doesn’t look like a wave of nationalism to me. If the US left inferred similar from the presence of the Stars and Bars (and there’s only one Union Jack shown) then there’d be no left presence on most picket lines.

    Two bad signs and one flag is pretty good.

    Comment by jericho — 8 May, 2009 @ 3:49 am

66. be bold, Seale. But wrong and arrogant to assume the stating of opinions here (’posturing’) means we are doing nothing vs BNP in our areas. Lots of days of action this weekend - 2 in the midlands that I know of.

    Comment by jota — 8 May, 2009 @ 6:58 am

67. Andy post #56

    Since New Labour came to power in 97 we have seen a steady growth in the votes for the BNP. They have benefited greatly from the fact that hundreds of thousands of working class voters see themselves as abandoned by the party they believed was “for the workers”.

    The material conditions that have led to the rise in support for the far right have been created by New Labour and their economic policies.

    I find it incredible, that after the illegal wars, the privatisation, the courting of the banks and the city of London, the attacks on civil liberties et al that we can seriously advocate voting New Labour to keep Griffin and co out. New Labour IS the reason that the BNP stand a chance of electoral success in the first place.

    No2EU is far from perfect. Comrades have many justifiable criticisms of the platform however, if the left is to get serious about providing a working class alternative to the politics of hate and despair then coalitions and co-operation are the way forward.

    How can it be “ultra left” to advocate voting for a progressive trade union led platform against the war mongers and capitalists of New Labour?

    Comment by unity - you know it makes sense — 8 May, 2009 @ 9:33 am

68. #67

    All the intersnationalism, and opposing Labour’s policies from the left don’t count for a hill of beans if a reckless electoral intervention in the NW means we get NIck Griffin elected as BNP MEP. That is why it is ultra-left becasuue you haven’t calibrated tha actual political alignment, and what is at stake.

    Political parties are more than list of candidates and policies, they also have a relationship with voters, and ideology, and NO2EU is currently electorally irrelevant - no one has heard of it, and it hasn’t the money for a major campaign like UKIP did in the past

    Comment by Andy Newman — 8 May, 2009 @ 9:58 am

69. “Dave Nellist is no1 no2eu candidate in West Midlands - and he will be giving a real internationalist and socialist message at every public meeting across the region.”

    Weird, I heard the Socialist Party were in Birmingham on Saturday banging out the slogan “Save British Jobs.”

    Comment by Salacious Crumb — 8 May, 2009 @ 10:00 am

70. “All the intersnationalism, and opposing Labour’s policies from the left don’t count for a hill of beans if a reckless electoral intervention in the NW means we get NIck Griffin elected as BNP MEP.”

    So lets get this straight…if the BNP get elected in the NW (or anywhere else) it will be because of a reckless ultra left intervention of socialists and trade unionists working together in a unified fashion in an attempt to provide a left alternative at the Euro elections?

    The fact is that whether No2EU was standing or not…the BNP are likely to get more votes that any right wing party in Britain since the days of Mosley.

    Who has created those conditions Andy? How can you seperate out the rise of the BNP vote from the complete and abject failure of New Labour to provide for working class people in this country.

    What a sad and desperate situation we find ourselves in…advocationg a vote for an imperialist, anti-working class pro big business party in order to keep out fascists without drawing any conclusions as to why the right wing threat is there in the first place.

    Comment by unity - you know it makes sense — 8 May, 2009 @ 10:20 am

71. #70

    Who says I haven’t drawn “any conclusions as to why the right wing threat is there in the first place”

    I have plenty to say about how that situation has occured, but starting a new electoral coalition weeks before the Euro elections, with a worthy but obscure set of candudates and no obvious mechanism to communitate your policies to the wider electorate is not the way to do it.

    In the NW it is going to be incredibly tight, it is not clear on tactical grounds whether voting labour or voting green is better, buut it coulod be on a knife edge; and as it happens both of the candidates actually in the running to beat Nick Griffin, Peter Cranie for the Greens, and the third placed labour candidate, Theresa Griffin, are left wing.

    Comment by Andy Newman — 8 May, 2009 @ 10:26 am

72. Andy

    I would hope in the future that if candidates, from whatever party, truly are “left” then they will be standing under the one banner in subsequent elections.

    The lessons from this period are going to be harsh and are going to have to be learned quickly. As we continue into the global financial catastrophe the lessons of history teach us that the far right will grow in strength during this period. The tactic of small leftist groups turning up and urging people not to vote nazi was ok in the early 90’s when the BNP threat was marginal and confined to a handful of inner city council wards. However, the rise of the far right will not be defeated by tactical voting for New Labour/The Greens/ The Liberals or even the Tories. The threat they pose has to be countered at an ideological level. That means that all of us who believe in socialist and progressive politics need to look at unifying and countering this threat head on.

    The sad fact of the matter is that in many of our communities the BNP are seen as being “working class.” They are picking up on the concerns of communities that feel abandoned by New Labour. The BNP are dealing with “class” issues and are building their organisations in the communities that have suffered the most under the economic policies of Blair/Brown. To go into these communities and advocate a vote for New Labour (and also quite frankly The Greens) will be met with derision.

    Many of your and others on this blogs criticisms of No2EU are valid. It is unlikely that it will make a significant breakthrough at this election. The name, confusion over the issue of taking up of seats and the speed in which it has been put together are all barriers to it achieving the potential vote it otherwise could have had. However, despite its faults it is a genuine attempt to unite various progressive forces to give a left alternative to the politics of the far right.

    I hope that it is part of a process that leads to a significant realignment of left forces in this country. There may be a few false starts and many mistakes made before then. However I will be supporting it and if the BNP do manage to get seats then I know who I will hold responsible.

    Comment by unity - you know it makes sense — 8 May, 2009 @ 11:28 am

73. unity - you know it makes sense post 72: I do agree with your statement in full but it would appear that i am in a minority amoungst the Respect NC.

    “I would hope in the future that if candidates, from whatever party, truly are “left” then they will be standing under the one banner in subsequent elections.”

    This is what i joined Respect for after years in the Labour Party at all levels running around in circles. It was what attracted so many (and now so many lost) to the Respect banner when we first formed it - the need to build a Left alternative to New Labour.

    The new “love in” with the Green Party by some in the ledership of Respect indecates that rather than move in the direction of unity we will move in the direction f Respect candidates in the next election not only in East London and Birmingham (which is important and should be supported by all on the Left but in the North West and elsewhere as well (all on the promise that the Greens will stand aside in the North West and an inflated view of support derived from the Viva Palestina campaign). It really does fly in the face of the current level of membership and resources in Respect which will be fully stretched to fight the three key seats - and we therefore risk losing them all. More importantly its a slap in the face for others on the Left who should be our allies and who will much less likley offer support in the three key seats Respect stands some chance to win.

    The No2EU campaign could, with good will (and if pushed by those currently involved when reviewed after the Euro election), be recreated for the general election with some of the changes many would wish to see. It could also offer to support the three Respect candidates along with others from other parties in key areas (and some Labour MP’s such as Jeremy Corbyn and Dai Davies for Blaenau Gwent People’s Voice etc etc).

    While we go down the road of Respect doing its own thing standing the North West and other areas (other than the three mentioned previously) we will never build this alliance which was the very essence of why Respect was formed in the first place. I have stated before its “make or brake” for Respect in the next twelve months and the signs are not looking good.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 8 May, 2009 @ 12:08 pm

74. Neil - you seem to forget that when Respect was formed we wanted the Greens to join as well. Along with the Bob Crow, the CPB and others. They all declined the invitation. Your dismissive comments about the Greens now do you or Respect no favours. It seems left unity is OK as long as it’s only ‘our’ sort of left we want to unite with. The Greens are clearly on the progressive wing of British politics with policies in most areas very similar to Respect, Left Alternative or all the other various left outings in the last few years. So why the sudden dislike now?

    But I’m sure that Milton Keynes Respect, under your leadership, will be throwing yourselves into support for No2EU with verve and gusto. I’m sure you will win numerous new friends from the process. I wish you well. Let the left test the water and see what a difference this thing will make. But why should we expect everyone to jump as the same time for an untested electoral alliance which almost everyone involved with seems to think has major flaws. The remakable thing about NO2EU is that nearly all if it’s supporters seem to start any discussion with their concerns and criticisms - not the most auspicious start for a new project.

    There is no need to demean yourself with silly talk of ‘love ins with the greens’ and the like. Your position is in a minority with the leadership fo Respect but the majority gave you every encouragement to do what you wanted and back this NO2EU slate should you wish. A rather generous position I think which most other parties would never contenance. Perhaps it might be better now to prove your points in practice.

    You may think that things are make or break for Respect in the next twelve months.
    You may be right. But Respect in the North West is not ‘doing it’s own thing’ but actively supporting another candiate who we believe, after much discussion, to be best placed to beat the BNP. That is real alliance building in practice. The slow process of building trust. It started before anyone even thought of No2EU. Do you think Respect should have gone back on it’s publicly stated support for the Greens in the North west as a united anti-fascist response? Would us breaking our word make us look more trustworthy for future partners or less?

    Comment by TLC — 8 May, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

75. TLC comment 74: your rather patronisng comments do not help. A little more tolerance of others valid opinions would help in this situation as others I hope will respect yours.

    You would think all is well within Respect yet in the last month both the National Secetary and Treasurer have resigned over the No2EU issue (while remaining on the NC) followed by the national membership secretary for other reasons. We move on as if nothing has happened and of no importance.

    I have no problem with the Greens and yes I did want them to be part of a coalition along with others five years ago but on each and every occassion except on this one where WE are standing aside they have refused all approaches. Yes its true that we have to honour an agreement that was entered into at regional level but in hindsight perhaps that should have been discussed more widely. But no one supporting the current situation on the NC has yet answered why Respect could not have supported No2EU other than in the North West due to that agreement. Why could other official (as against individual) Respect candidates not be on the N2EU list if there had been the will at national level? The NC that made this important decision had less than half its members present.

    Now there is a big difference between working with another party/group in an agreed coalition/alliance and stepping down to allow them a free run in the hope that somehow this will help us in the future (as if the Greens carry that much weight on their own). I dont think a Respect election campaign next year in the North West is going to achieve much other than isolate us and take away what little resources we have from the South Birmingham campaign we could win. Respect should after five years work night and day to form a working Left alliance for the next election that would support our three key constituencies while at the same time actively (not passively)support others who are not members of Respect in a new coalition. This is all possible and No2EU is a small start one we should and could build on if the will was there.

    Post 74:
    “But why should we expect everyone to jump as the same time for an untested electoral alliance which almost everyone involved with seems to think has major flaws.”

    Amazing - dont you realise that this is what so many others on the Left said about Respect when we first formed it?

    The future does not lie in Respect going it alone but in Respect being part of a progressive larger alliance a view supported by the Respect conference last year. If we go into the next election only as Respect in three or five places or whatever the number may be it will be the end of Respect as we will have shown that we were not serious in wanting to build a larger Left alternative to New Labour. I shall continue to fight for this new Left Socialist coalition of which Respect should be a part but do not presume that i am in such a minority as you may think when it comes to the rank and file Respect membership.

    Comment by Neil Williams — 8 May, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

76. Some more reports from Wednesday’s demo:

    Despite the fact that I had to get up at 4:30 in the morning the protest outside the Olympic sites was well worth attending. The thing that immediately struck me was that compared to other pickets I have been to at Staythorpe etc there was far fewer BJFBW placards (four in total) or Union Jacks (I saw two). This does not mean the battle against unhelpful ideas and opinions has been won, that will take time and further struggles, but it does reflect the conscious effort of the organisers to combat these ideas. For example see this post from the Bear Facts website leading up to the demo:

    “3 we have possible 6 speakers (all high profile people) to address us all outside the site (the area has been checked out so there are good spots for speakers to stand) could you ALL keep an open ear for any racist noises we did not have it at L,O,R , Staythorpe or the grain so it NOT happening in London OK lads the press would kill us over it !!”

    As well as the speakers Andy mentioned Frank Jepson, convener of Basildon Visteon, also addressed the crowd and was well received.
    Speaker after speaker stressed the fact that this was NOT a struggle against foreign workers but against the undermining of the NAECI and the use of blacklisting by the bosses.

    The biggest cheer was reserved for Keith Gibson, one of the leaders of the LOR strike and Socialist Party member. His authority among these workers is clear, flowing from his role in the Lindsey dispute and so his own words emphasising the real target of the protest is the bosses and not foreign workers is much more effective than a stack of leaflets or badly written and factually incorrect pamphlets denouncing BJFBW.

    The protest broke for lunch in Stratford before reassembling in Parliament Square where some extraordinary scenes took place.

    At Parliament Square the construction workers started to gather in small groups waiting for the lobby of MP’s to begin. John McDonnell had also arranged a meeting in Parliament for a group of 100 workers. A group of police came over and tried to move the workers on, saying this was an illegal meeting under SOCPA laws. Naturally many of the workers weren’t keen on this and pointed to the Tamils camped under Winston Churchill’s statue entirely unmolested. The police officer in charge informed them that the Tamils did have permission; which I know for a fact is a complete lie.

    Eventually a critical mass built up that made it impossible to move the workers on so a rally was started, megaphone and all, in defiance of the SOCPA rules. Bob Crow spoke very well, putting the case for NO2EU, the role of the Posted Workers Directive, etc. Alex Gordon, Craig Johnson from the RMT NEC and three other RMT members came along with the NO2EU banner prominently displayed.

    When McDonnell arrived to address the meeting around 30 police had showed up. Just as McDonnell was about to take the megaphone the police intervened and tried to stop him from speaking. The police were very aggressive with McDonnell to the point of laying hands on him. When the crowd realised what was happening an animal roar of anger went up and things threatened to get very nasty. Bob Crow shouted at the police to “go back to murdering people!” which the crowd then took up, along with shouting that this was a free country, it was their country, their Parliament and they wanted to hear John McDonnell.

    John McDonnell did finally speak to great cheers, mostly about the blacklist. Bob Crow also addressed the rally as well. We then went to lobby Parliament where two very strange things happened.

    Firstly Derek Simpson turned up unexpectedly. He went into a huddle with some of the organisers. I joined them and listened to what was said. The workers laid into Simpson for his inaction on the blacklist and for failing to turn up to the Olympic sites protest or give any official backing to the protest. One worker described how the site he works on in Manchester has a shop steward who has been appointed by the bosses not the members. Anyone who complains about this is blacklisted. The workers demanded the removal of the steward. Simpson said they had given him a lot to think about.

    After this, while we were queuing up to go into Parliament Neil Kinnock pulled up into the car park inside Parliament in a flashy red car. One of the workers shouted over to him, “Hello Neil. Still making millions?” To which Kinnock replied, “Go stick your fucking head up your arse!” Now normally these lads never stop talking but there was a moment of stunned silence until the worker replied, “Is that how people say hello in Wales?” which got a huge roar of laughter. Kinnock flounced off, going red all the way up his big baldy head.

    So in one day the anti trade union laws were broken (LOR and Dimlington both took unofficial strike action to go to London) and the SOCPA laws that restrict the right to protest out side Parliament when it’s sitting were broken on one day.
    This was a good continuation to the campaign but the limits of continuing unofficial action were shown. This is because although there were delegations of workers from across the country only Dimplington and LOR were actually struck. There must be an end to these workers fighting under the threat of the anti union laws. UNITE; GMB and UCAAT must immediately launch a national campaign against blacklisting and undermining union agreements. This must start with an official ballot for a one day strike in the construction industry as a whole and another march on Parliament.

    Comment by Neil — 8 May, 2009 @ 6:40 pm

77. #76 “Bob Crow shouted at the police to “go back to murdering people!” ”

    What a waste that Brother crow never entered the Diplomatic service :o)

    Comment by Andy Newman — 8 May, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

78. After the Revolution happens he’s a shoe in for Commissar for Giving the International Bourgeoisie and Their Lickspitle Running Dogs What-For (formerly Foreign Secretary’s Office)

    Comment by Neil — 8 May, 2009 @ 6:54 pm

79. Just a couple of questions.
    Do you know who’s bright idea it was to invite a UKIP speaker?
    Did they show ant support for the Tamil demo/hunger strike? A bit of international solidarity wouldn’t go amiss would it?

    Comment by paddy garcia — 8 May, 2009 @ 6:59 pm

80. That was a bit of a mystery to me as well Paddy. Socialist Appeal members were the ones who were controlling the megaphone in between speaches. I think UKIP just showed up and asked to speak. We (i.e. SP) certainly didn’t know anything about them speaking until that bloke started talking.

    As for the Tamil thing it was a bit complicated. A Tamil comrade from the SP and I both spent quite a bit of time negotiating with the organisers about trying to get speakers to address the rally. They didn’t seem to want to address the construction workers rally. Keith Gibson offered to speak at the Tamil camp but by the time I got the Tamil organisers to agree to this it was time to go into Parliament. The security at Parliament kept us in a que for an hour and by the time everyone got out it was time for the busses to head back up the country. It’s a pity we didn’t get someone to address either rally, but it wasn’t from lack of trying.

    Comment by Neil — 8 May, 2009 @ 7:05 pm

81. Good work Neil, shame you didn’t manage to pull it off this time. Would have been great to have Tamil speaker and vice versa.

    Comment by paddy garcia — 8 May, 2009 @ 7:10 pm

82. If Respect is supporting the Green Party in one place, supporting NO2EU in others and not standing itself, where is it going as a party?

    Comment by Karl Stewart — 8 May, 2009 @ 7:28 pm

83. Nowhere

    Comment by paddy garcia — 8 May, 2009 @ 7:35 pm

84. I’m sorry Neil if you think my argument was patroninsing but it seems to me that you have missed the point entirely. You seem to want NO2EU to be something that it doesn’t claim to be. You seem to think that it is suddenly going to transform itself into something wonderful, a new left alliance or something, after the Euro-elections. I see nowher in NO2EU anything that suggests this is a current plan after the Euro-elections. But let’s wait and see. You have the absolute right to throw yourself into their campaign - do so and then prove the rest of us wrong.

    You say…

    “You would think all is well within Respect yet in the last month both the National Secetary and Treasurer have resigned over the No2EU issue”

    Well I never said all was well but I do think both the National Secretary and National Treasurer resignations were both pointless and un-necessary. If everyone resigned whenever they lost a vote then surely no organisation could ever have a functioning leadership. Nick W. was given permission to stand on the NO2EU slate. There was no reason for him to resign.

    You quote me about the North West

    “Yes its true that we have to honour an agreement that was entered into at regional level but in hindsight perhaps that should have been discussed more widely.”

    Who with? I believe that this was discussed at all three Respect NCs this year and it has been discussed at several all members meetings in Greater Manchester. Who else did you want to discuss this with?

    You say “The NC that made this important decision had less than half its members present.”

    That may be true Neil but decisions are made by those present at meetings not by those absent. I think that if you believe that a larger attendance would have made a difference you may be deluding yourself. Of course we will never know but people who do not attend meetings should perhaps be a little circumspect when criticising the honest decisions of those who do attend. I’m informed by someone present that it was a close vote but those voting for NO2EU represntled many fewer branches than those voting for flexibility.

    You say

    “Now there is a big difference between working with another party/group in an agreed coalition/alliance and stepping down to allow them a free run in the hope that somehow this will help us in the future (as if the Greens carry that much weight on their own).”

    Indeed there is Neil but let us be clear. We are not standing aside in the North West “in the hope that somehow this will help us in the future” but because we believe it is the right thing to do. Tactically and politically in light of the threat from the BNP and the cause of broader left unity. You may disagree but please don’t try and distort the argument.

    You quote me

    “But why should we expect everyone to jump as the same time for an untested electoral alliance which almost everyone involved with seems to think has major flaws.”

    and then say…

    Amazing - dont you realise that this is what so many others on the Left said about Respect when we first formed it?

    Yes Neil it is but we didn’t go off denouncing them but we tried to persude them that we would be better off together. It is an ongoing process. I wish No2EU well but my political differences with the method of organisation, their orientation in this election, the lateness of their camapign and a host of other issues means I cannot support them at the present time. Nor could the majority of the NC. Does that preclude a future alliance? No. Does that mean we can’t or won’t work togther? No.

    As I said before various Respect branches and individuals have said they will back No2EU. Fine - surely this should be a point of happy agreement. While fight for a line of division over this?

    But you seem to think that the NC passing a motion that would have committed Respect across the country to supporting something that many felt unhappy with would have had some great significance. In this i think you are simply wrong. In reality those who are enthusiatic about NO2EU would have supported it (as they are now) and the rest would have stayed at home or backed someone else. That is the same situation we have now but without the conceit of a ‘national’ position that would have been no such thing.

    Comment by TLC — 8 May, 2009 @ 7:51 pm

85. Neil

    I’m not a part of Southwark Respect but I am in touch with some of its members. I disagreed with its decision to call on the EC to organise a London wide meeting around no2eu after the motion was lost on the NC. There was nothing technically wrong with this call on the EC, indeed it could be argued it was using the democratic structures set up by the ‘conference’ section of the party. To me though, I thought it could have been interpreted as an attempt to get, by procedural methods something it had failed to win politically.

    My point is this. If, after the election the raison d’être for Respect evaporates we will want to take as many people as we can into any new socialist realignment. That includes those who at the moment have illusions in ‘progressive’ parties or believe respect can go it alone.

    I don’t know what is happening in other branches around the country but the only forum for debate seems to be the NC. And Neil, I think the NC is the rank and file.

    On a more flippant note; you wouldn’t have been in the minority if 1) you had been there to vote. 2) we hadn’t allowed one of the architects of the counter motion to join the party on the day so he could vote!

    Comment by paulv — 8 May, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

86. At the second Respect National Council this year the London members of the NC present were asked to organise a London wide members meeting to discuss the issue of the Euro-elections prior to the following NC. This would have been able to discuss all of these issues in relation to London. Sadly that meeting was not organised and so the actual discussion could only take place within branches and at the NC itself.

    To me there seems little point speculating about what a vote would have been had others been in attendance. They weren’t. We have no way of telling what the overall point of view is within Respect other than by discussions within branches and talking to individuals but I can say that at the April meeting of Greater Manchester Respect (prior to the last NC) our position on the Greens and Peter Cranie was re-endorsed unanimously by the members present.

    Surely it would be best now to just get on with the elections and for individuals and branches to throw their weight into whatever campaign they feel most comfortable with. Decisions are not going to be changed now and we can all re-visit and re-assess in the cold, honest light of actual election results, successes/failures and realities on June 5th.

    Comment by Clive Searle — 8 May, 2009 @ 8:36 pm

87. SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY TO STAND IN EUROPEAN ELECTIONS

    The SLP has announced that they will be standing a full slate of candidates in the forthcoming European elections being held on 4th June 2009. All nine regions in England plus the Scotland and Wales regions will be contested.

    The EU is a capitalist club that makes it easier for the multinational companies to exploit workers throughout its member states. Factories are uprooted from one country to another in pursuit of the cheapest labour, without any social responsibility being accepted towards the devastated communities they are leaving behind.

    Moreover, EU directives on privatisation are destroying Britain’s health, education and postal services and now there is no part of the economy safe from the hands of the privateers.

    The Socialist Labour Party is totally committed to complete withdrawal from the European Union. However, the SLP recognises that the EU is but one instrument of capitalist rule; therefore what is ultimately needed is a genuine socialist alternative to the vast array of problems that workers and their families are facing today.

    The SLP is the only party that is offering such an alternative.

    Opposing the European Union is part of the Socialist Labour Party’s internationalist outlook. We want Britain to come out of Europe and into the world, developing and expanding trading links with the rest of the world.

    Only by coming out of the EU can we begin to put things right economically and socially.

    Vote us in to get us out!

    ENDS.

    Comment by Jim — 8 May, 2009 @ 8:40 pm

88. Bloody hell, all the regions in the UK? Didn’t know they had it in them. I wonder where the money’s come from.

    Comment by Duncan — 8 May, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

89. #82 I know it must lie somewhat beyond the ken of some ageing leftists to understand what a broad coalition is, but it means that, in various circumstances, people take different positions. Why should not members of a party take different views on who to support in an election in which they are not standing? And why is it such a problem for a party that it chooses not to try to raise the vast amounts of money required to make any significant impact in an election with such enormous constituencies when only 25% of the electorate is likely to vote and in which UKIP came third last time round? Better that a serious party should play to its strengths and work on boosting its vote in the areas that matter in 2010 when there will be both significant local elections and the general election.

    #83 As for Respect going nowhere, I rather think Paddy would much prefer nowhere to be where Respect is going than this judgement reflecting a mature and disinterested view of its prosepcts. By the way, it is surely something of an act of frustration, if not desperation, on the part of the Socialist Party that it has leapt on to the No2EU “bandwagon”. I think Taafe would have been much more circumspect about this initiative even ten years ago. What’s Paddy’s view on that thought?

    Comment by rachel trickett — 8 May, 2009 @ 9:29 pm

90. #76 “Naturally many of the workers weren’t keen on this and pointed to the Tamils camped under Winston Churchill’s statue entirely unmolested. The police officer in charge informed them that the Tamils did have permission; which I know for a fact is a complete lie”

    thats it stick the boot into the tamils……….what a reactionary load of tripe. once again the SP line up with UKIP and the forces of the right. time to wake up and smell the coffee comrades. The idea this protest is not anti foriegner is clearly only in the minds of he deluded.

    Comment by ll — 9 May, 2009 @ 12:18 am

91. No II I know this because we have a Tamil comrade who is in contact with the organisers of the magnificent actions of the Tamils against the genocide that is happening in Sri Lanka.
    The point I made to the workers who were taken in by the police lies was that a) the Tamils were able to do what they wanted because they just went ahead and did it not because of any favouratism by the British state and b) this was an example they should follow, which they did, breaking the SOCPA laws in the process and sending the poilice packing thanks to their collective determination not to be moved.
    If you had anything even approaching the intelligence of an ameoba you’d realise that the poice were trying to use divide and rule tactics to mask their own weakness in the face of determined mass struggle.

    Comment by Neil — 9 May, 2009 @ 12:59 am

92. Hey Rachel (90), less of the “ageing leftist” remarks you cheeky young whippersnapper!!
    Seriously tho’, it is extremely unusual for a political party to withdraw from the electoral process itself and then to have a position that its members, branches and regions should back whatever candidates from whichever parties they choose.
    Surely a political party, by definition, must have an agreed collective position?
    And hello II (90), nice to see you back again! Accusations of supporting “reactionary tripe” and “lining up with the forces of the right” are not only utter nonsense, they’re also a bit ironic coming from someone like you, who fanatically supported the right-wing candidate Lawrence Faircloth in the amicus/Unite GS election!

    Comment by Karl Stewart — 9 May, 2009 @ 8:57 am

93. I suppose I have to take the blame for anyone calling you an ageing leftist, Karl. Apologies. People - he’s not that old really, he just started young.

    Anyway - voting systems: can anyone give me a quick rundown of how this election works?

    Comment by KrisS — 9 May, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

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HOPE not hate
Celebrating modern Britain